If I pounce on readers, it’s because I want you to grow as men and as Lotharios. Tuff luv. So I had to take a swipe at this text convo that reader “rlcooper” passed along.
Been reading your stuff for a while but recently realised how fucking necessary this stuff is. Just wondering if you have the time to critique some text game, free to publish. I’m a dumb ass, I know.
me: depends on what i can expect
her: hahaha nah idk. do you have expectations
me: nope, i’ll just let whatever happens happen
her: that
her: that is always a good plan
me: you know from experience huh
her: i just reckon life is better that way
me: maybe cos it is
her: true 🙂
me: you’re doing well, i like compliments
her: hahaha
her: dont want your head to explode
me: wow, never heard of a woman so frigid
her: what?
me: i’ll keep the euphemisms down
how cute, you don’t get it
Ok, spot the exact moment when he overgamed.
Take your time.
.
.
.
Got it?
It was here:
wow, never heard of a woman so frigid
Push-pull is a powerful seduction technique. Push-push-pull is good, too, in certain circumstances and in limited doses. But push-push-still pushing-woops time for a desperate hail mary pull is toxic overgaming. If you tease and taunt a woman long enough, she’ll eventually think a) you aren’t really interested in her or b) you’re a prick, and not the sexy kind of prick.
Right after she texted
dont want your head to explode
was the perfect time for easing up on the jerkboy gas and reeling her in gently.
no worries, i can take all the flattery you can dish out
I don’t know what happened after this chat, but I bet it wasn’t as good as it could’ve been. Constant pushing (or “going cold”) is a tell of insecurity; women have hindbrain antennae exquisitely tuned to pick up the slightest perturbations in male self-confidence. This is the art part of the art and science of seduction. You’ve gotta know when to hammer strike, and when to stay your hand and give the helpless nail a little kiss on the head.
One other observation. When he said
you’re doing well, i like compliments
it was in reply to something she wrote which wasn’t technically a compliment. But logic isn’t all that crucial to a right proper seduction. Women value feelings far more than they value internally logical conversation. The lesson here is that you shouldn’t fret too much about making sense to a woman as long as whatever you’re saying is delivered with a stout-chested bravado.
[…] Spot The Overgaming […]
I thought the overgaming started at:
me: maybe cos it is
That message should have been meeting instructions.
Wow, never expected this to get posted up XD
What happened afterwards:
(About 20 mins later)
her:
hahahah
i dont understand whats going on
me: yep, ttyl
her: byeee
Realising that the length of the replies was getting longer, I felt I should retreat and regroup.
@rlcooper
overall, a pretty solid exchange…
you had the right instincts anyway…lol…trying to take the texting sexual…and that was the spot to do it…
you learned some good lessons – don’t use words with sexually negative meanings…frigid, shame, etc. also, don’t use ‘big word’ concepts when texting…lol…or ‘three-step’ jumps of changes in meaning…here, the change-up was too obscure and you lost her…lol…also, push for IRL meet up sooner
better responses…assume the sale…
her: dont want your head to explode
me: cock tease, huh? drinks at [x] at [y]
her: dont want your head to explode
me: oh, you will…coffee tomorrow
her: dont want your head to explode
me: whatever happens, happens…i’m out with friends at [x] see you there
also, you had solid instincts to pull back when things started to go south…
wait a couple of days and reengage if she doesn’t ping you…
good luck!
@ having a bad day
whats an e-mail to get in touch with you
lol…why would you want that?…
you want some game advice? post it up here…so you can be an inspiration…trust me, your situ is not unique…lol…and you’ll get more advice than from just lil ol’ me…lol…you want to pay for that advice? there’s a donate button right up top…
a man who talks too much is over-gaming.
> “me: you’re doing well, i like compliments”
She had just given him the smiley face “:)”. Time to PHYSICALIZE and SEXUALIZE the conversation. Verbal kino leading to physical kino leading to your penetration of her holiest of holies. Q: What do you have that the battery operated dildo lying in her bedside drawer does not have? A: YOU!!! You are the prize!. When she sends you that smiley face you need to start assuming the sale. You: “I’ll be at Gwyneth’s Hipster Cocktail Lounge at 9PM, sipping on a vodka martini, shaken not stirred.” Get her the hell out of TInderer Never-Never-Land and let her met The Prize in the flesh of MEATSPACE!!! It’s time for her to become aware of that great big empty gaping hole in her life which her battery-operated bedside dildo will never be able to fill – the empty hole which is precisely the absence of you.
tldr; == You are not auditioning to be her pen pal. You are auditioning to be her LOVER [and maybe even the father of her children]. So get the God-damned ball rolling. Which requires actual physical carnal-knowledge COITUS IN MEATSPACE! And she [like every other chick you’ll ever meet] doesn’t realize this, but she’s actually auditioning to be the mother of your children, too. So have some expectations for what she needs to be bringing to the table, in terms of attitude and behavior and manners and decorum [and of course whether or not she can abandon all that of shit at the drop of a hat and fuck your balls off like the wild animal she really is].
WW, good stuff. I like “MEATSPACE.” The way this posts sound remind me of Swingers…”you got these claws man and she’s just this tiny rabbit.”
+1 He had her upqualifying him and thus there was no need to neg her at all. She saw him as high status until he went social retard. He should have gone for a meetup at a certain time without naming the place, saving that for a surprise for later. Then work on creating the fantasy using texting. This goes with the flow of living life as it comes. You still need to create the fantasy and do the leg work behind the scenes so that the woman perceives the fantasy as just flowing.
I’m gaming a woman for a non-sexual purpose. I texted a woman, “Let’s do X. Y or Z? [Y and Z are days of the week.] She texted back, “Will have to be Z because I’m busy Y.” [She actually used more words and qualified her reason for being busy. She texted back within a few minutes of my text.]
Minimal effort and assume the sale.
great post Whomever
as theasdgamer sums up…”He had her upqualifying him and thus there was no need to neg her at all.”
once you’ve got her where you want her, you need to ease up a little. no need to give her a hard time when she’s being cool and trying to have fun with you.
Also, when you’re assuming the sale, and telling her where’s she’s gonna meet you, you can throw in a little worldly-wise-gentleman’s jostling, almost a playful soft-neg: “And don’t waste too much time putting on your war paint or else I’ll already have left by the time you finally show up.”
“telling her where’s she’s gonna meet you…”
Actually, giving a soft imperative like “let’s meet at X” isn’t the same thing. Your example is domineering, which is socially retarded.
“you can throw in a little worldly-wise-gentleman’s jostling, almost a playful soft-neg: “And don’t waste too much time putting on your war paint or else I’ll already have left by the time you finally show up.””
Better is “I like to keep my fun and playful attitude, so I’ll leave before I get bored from waiting…” DHV. Also lights a fire under their butts.
Wolves are better than dogs at COUNTING: Wild canines identify the number of items more often than their domesticated cousins
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2883974/Wolves-better-dogs-COUNTING-Wild-canines-identify-number-items-domesticated-cousins.html
SCIENCE! proves that the Alpha Wolf is more SCIENCE-Y! than his Beta domesticated foot-servant [Humanities Major?] counterpart.
There’s probably an important lesson in there about demographics, as well. The USA was founded by a bunch of crotchety misfit ne’er-do-wells, with the pioneer spirit, who were willing to turn their backs on the creature comforts of European civilization, and head off into the vast unknown wilderness of North America. Whereas the last 40 or 50 years of our immigration policy [and arguably the last 150 years] have seen this country deluged by tens of millions of Beta chihuahua lapdogs who will dutifully vote every November exactly as their Masters instruct them to vote.
This is like a crime study that doesn’t mention demographics. If you don’t give me the breed of domestic dogs your testing against, it’s basically worthless. My dog, cute little bugger that he is, is a moron. A Border Collie isn’t.
RIght – this is a binary either/or – not much room for subtlety. But the parallel with what we talk about in the Manosphere is simply stunning. The Alpha Wolf who wins his pussy in the wild versus the domesticated Beta loser lap-dawg who only gets his pussy if his Master deigns to allow him to mount da bitch? And who likely has already been sent to the Vet to get himself castrated so that even if he were presented with a bitch in heat, he wouldn’t know what to do with it? The domesticated Beta whose stomach is always full and who’s packing a few too many extra lbs versus the Alpha in the wild who’s lean and mean and hungry and motivated and has to use his smarts to score the win?
The chics I banged the most were the ones I talked to the least. For the most part.
Well, I got the right answer, which is odd for me because I hate text game. I avoid it when possible, but study it for when it’s needed.
rlcooper, you’re on the right track, in case you couldn’t tell. I’d rather be where you are than where the beta boy masses are. After you learn to stop pushing, you’ll be swimming in it.
I have this problem and now I just back off or laugh or say nothing when it gets to this point.
Girls will say snide or nasty things as shit tests.
My crazy ex gf came out to a party I had organized a few weeks back. I greeted all my guests including her.
As I backed away to pick something out my hand accidentally brushed the empty wine glass she had in her hand.
Her: “You’re just trying to break my glass I know”.
He: Smile..heh…yah. moves on
Girls say stupid shit for no reason or because they want to fill time.
Later I asked her to dance as I did all my guests. She nearly jumped out of her skin that I had come over and was so excited she didn’t know what to say.
I was off balance partly due to her height and the drinks I’d had.
Her: “You are weak…”
Me: smile, eye fuck, silence.
Would have been too easy to banter about but to what end?
Now an update on the 27 year old who was pushing back. She was just kind of nervous. She texted me on Sunday at the exact time we’re supposed to me:
Her: “Sorry will be running late”
Me: My baby needs a new watch for Christmas.
Later: “Kidnapped?”
She was late. I didn’t lose my shit. But I did bang her hard so it was a minor inconvenience.
Over-gaming smacks of insecurity. It’s filling the air with banter instead of just laughing it off.
Third example girl Im gaming has the initials TX. I had a sparkly removable tattoo with a series of X’s. She was fascinated by this. We bantered back and forth how it was a secret society tattoo aimed at luring her my man cave.
Her: TX yes, that is toxic
Me: Tyranasaurus Rex..dinosaur try to stay current
Her: there’s only one dinosaur here….she starts laughing….you have to give that one to me…that was good.
Me: Not bad, you’re keeping up but still miles behind.
She’s so proud of some witticism…why ruin it for her? It’s like an achievement to get one on me to clobber her would be over-gaming.
I’m well aware that what I’m doing is ‘sniping’ and I can only promise that I mean it in the best of terms, but here we go:
You need to fucking get over your “ex”, wala.
Seriously.
I almost can’t read a single post of yours without you talking about her, and if anyone questions your situation with her you’ll take up half of the page soliloquizing about how you are somehow handling it or have learned from it or whatever. You ain’t handling shit: bitch has been in your orbit for at *least* two years, now, which tells me that you’re not moving on and you’re not practicing half of the shit that is preached here. I barely come to this site anymore, but the second I see your handle I know you’re going to name drop the “crazy ex” again. I could make a fucking drinking game out of it and leave this site sloppy every time. Or dead. I kid you not – I saw your name after not having been here for at least three months, said “Gee, I wonder if he’s going to talk about his ex”, and there it was. I’m either a goddamn wizard or you have a problem.
You’ve been here forever and I consider you one of the old guard (like that old freak who used to always bitch that modern girls needed hairier twats; i miss that guy), but for fuck’s sake move on and don’t ever speak of her again. You’re almost a parody at this point.
Good luck.
@Hook True. That’s the goal.
The word “frigid” is a nuke. Is there even a way to utilize it that doesn’t work better without it?
It is an odd term to use with someone you just met. I’d be tempted to ask him how he would know whether I’m frigid or not.
Completely agree. There are a few worse words that could be deployed and destroy attraction. “Frigid” is a good thing to say to a woman you really, really never want to see again.
“The word “frigid” is a nuke.”
I agree. I winced when I read it.
There’s probably a way to use frigid when the girl is being a bitchy ice queen. But not here.
“You remind me a little of my baby sister. She is an Ice Queen, poor thing. Sexy, but lacking in warmth.”
“Lacking in warmth” conveys the same message, but without the loaded word.
The word “frigid” is a nuke. Is there even a way to utilize it that doesn’t work better without it?
Yeah, it’s almost as bad as calling a man “creepy”.
Good lesson. Ive lost many a female to overgaming (especially via text) over the years.
It is (IMO) also one of the easiest things to recover from. Wait a week and go in w/ Beta bait seems the best prescription. Or a dead dog/grandma/etc….
You can spin it to show range and volatility which is a massive alpha tell and chick crack to about half of em.
..example?
Of which part, beta bait or ?
Check out the latest edition of Charlie Manson’s angels.
http://news.yahoo.com/tsarnev-supporters-courthouse-boston-bombing-225059401.html
Hey guys. Just a quick touch-and-go between two planes and completely unrelated I’m afraid.
I’ve stumbled upon a great profile on OKCupid. A 22yo Big Beached Whale who describes herself as a “red-pill feminist”. I couldn’t resist and opened a convo. Best laughs in a while 😀
Btw I promised to post a field report but never find the time to sit down with an Internet connection nearby.
So I’ll just submit two LMR samples that made me laugh for a while.
1. On the way to my hotel : “If I decide to take the bus and go home now, what would you say to make me stay ?”
2. On the bed in the hotel : “Let’s just make out and leave it there.” After she had enquired whether I had condoms 😀
Great holidays to CH and all of you guys. Christmas and New Year game ftw. Walawala, I’ll pay you a beer if we meet one day.
@Adamastor Glad to know my stories made a difference.
@Adamastor. I gamed a young intern at my company. I didn’t have that much to do with her at work so wasn’t conflicted. But I invited her to help me work a party I was hosting. She came and was very helpful, counted out all the money at the door, dressed nice and impressed everyone who thought she was very sexy.
I told her I owed her one. “Yes, you can take me to dinner” she said. She’s 23. No game required. I teased her a bit for being so demanding but we went out tonight. I didn’t have to overgame. I sat back and let her blab. She clearly wants an older dude to guide her. She said as much.
Then she invited herself over to my place “So you can cook for me…”
Again…I flipped this around “We’ll cook together and you’ll bring dessert”.
After that it was plausible deniability. She’s coming over Sunday.
We held hands and I did the gentlemanly kiss on both cheeks to say hello and goodbye.
She was totally cool with everything leading me to conclude what I never realized until this year. Game is the door-opener. Without it there is NO WAY I could have banged the girls under 30 this year.
After that it’s calibration. This girl wants someone smart, funny and who can teach her something…anything.
Key words I listened for: “freedom”… “learn something” (from movies) she mentioned she was an only child but if she could chose she’d want an “older” brother to “protect” her. She held my hand with no pulling back or awkwardness and just kind of went with it.
I’ve noticed this with the other 23 year old. When I make a move they sort of just go with it assuming that’s what an older dude does with a girl he likes.
Beyond teasing her and then listening intently, then DHVing, then listening intently, asking her questions and teasing her I could see she was totally into hanging out. It was fun.
What did you reply to 1.?
[…] Source: Heartiste […]
It smacks of insecurity. Here’s the gist of what the (evidently still beta) commenter was saying via text:
(nervous unconscious laughter undertone) hahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahhaahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah OHMYGODCANWEGOOUTNOWPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEDONTSAYNOOKTHANKSPLEASE???
I found the dialogue in the OP painful to read. The man seemed eager to chatter at high girl-speed, and I have this image of his frenzied fingers tapping on his phone, in a pantomime of the dead-end street that is “I’m completely desperate to fuck.” Then of course he lurched into calling her “frigid”, which is probably not worse than saying “I bet your vagay smells really bad and suffers from creepy discharges.” But maybe not.
Iconic men are laconic.
“women have hindbrain antennae exquisitely tuned to pick up the slightest perturbations in male self-confidence”… the most valuable line in the post. I have been thinking about teasing women a lot lately, and why it is necessary and not just a certain type of conversation. I think an attractive women can tell from tiny perturbations in your face that you think she is attractive almost immediately upon seeing her. It is like a power struggle, in order to regain the upper hand, you must be able to tease. But should you outright insult her in order to regain it? No, she will detect insecurity. Instead your teasing should take the form of maybe finding her beauty inconsequential and letting her know it. It is all tactics. Side note, imagine if this girl googles what this guy messaged her to see what it meant and finds it on this blog.
Study the Japanese concept of “mu”. Mu is a studied neutrality, a face devoid of the ‘slightest perturbations.’ To function at an executive level in Japan a man must be able to sustain mu at all times (prior to the riotous evening entertainments, when humanity is unleashed). Japanese execs are contemptuous of American executives and what they term their histrionic, self-centered, obvious emoting about all things.
If a man is not in control of his face, he won’t be of his body, he will not be sovereign in his own person.
If a man is not in control of his face, truly beautiful women will know he’s intimidated and beneath her. Good luck negging and teasing your way back into the spotlight with a 30 year-old 9 who just saw you nervously lick your lips. Conversely, if he is in command of his face, she will be forced to study him in all his dimensions, visual as well as oral. She’ll be forced to probe him for interest. She’ll wonder why he doesn’t fall apart into a giggling hyperactive idiot in her presence, as most men do. She’ll be challenged by him, and challenged to discover his secrets.
(One could say, to be fair, that the very indifference constitutes a ‘neg’, I suppose. If so it’s of a much higher order, as it expresses an inner zen that must be possessed, not faked.)
I adapt mu to social situations by providing a woman appropriate smiles and other compromises that social situations require; the idea is not to be robotic, but to be neither hot nor cold; neither a one nor a zero; but to be, literally, “no thing.” If we are “no thing” a woman is not seeing any diminishing perturbations.
Pirsig on mu:
“Yes and no…this or that…one or zero. In the basis of this elementary two-term discrimination, all human knowledge is built up. The demonstration of this is the computer memory that stores all knowledge in the form of binary information. It contains ones and zeroes, that’s all. Because we’re unaccustomed to it, we don’t usually see that there’s a third possible logical term equal to yes and no which is capable of our understanding in an unrecognized direction. We don’t even have term for it, so I’ll have to use the Japanese mu.”
See more at:
http://www.awakin.org/read/view.php?tid=583#sthash.Dg2UlARD.dpuf
Pirsig holds his wisdom up to a brightness that gives shape to a constellation that orients my leaky boat
Women love fantasy. Create a fantasy for the woman you are gaming.
Forget about this “mu” idea. Let’s just go with the good old American term “pokerface”.
Corvinius FTW!
the point is made, but that is overstating it, they dont deserve quite that much creidt, they can be quite easily tricked
Truth. These text message threads are like deconstructing chess games. The creature your trying to seduce does’t moderate her urges with controls based on thinking and complex reaction. Any way you cut it – texting feels like a waste of time …
>Women value feelings far more than they value internally logical conversation.
The brightness of this gem ought to grow to that of a worthy star within the constellation that aspies turn their telescopes to.
I’ll go one further: women value the tone of how anything is expressed, rather than the words or ideas themselves.
-that’s fundamentally true
“women value the tone of how anything is expressed, rather than the words or ideas themselves.”
true. that’s why when you are telling them about a conversation you’ve had with someone else, they will always ask… but how did he sound when he said it? was she making a face or did she look tense or serious? they always want more than just the words.
I’d say it was even earlier: ‘me: you’re doing well, i like compliments’
She had ZERO compliments of him to this point, it just reeks of fishing for what he said she was already doing.
Reverse the situation to see it clearly, you are texting a girl and she suddenly says ‘i love your compliments’ youd see a needy bitch immediately.
F that! Spot the UNDERgaming of this dude:
http://thechive.com/2014/12/23/sorry-nicole-this-is-your-breakup-song-video/
“The lesson here is that you shouldn’t fret too much about making sense to a woman as long as whatever you’re saying is delivered with a stout-chested bravado.”
Beautiful. In times when I have an abundance of pussy (for example in the last two weeks of my last semester I fucked five new girls I’d been talking to in less than two weeks) I get so fucking weird. I say the strangest things (things most guys believe you can’t say to a girl you just met) to girls that make absolutely no sense at all, but the frame I say it in is always immaculate and I don’t backtrack what I said. At worst, the girl will essentially pretend I didn’t say anything, but usually they just go with it and enjoy it.
http://nationalyouthfront.com/black-gangs-attacking-white-people-in-st-louis-media-ignores-it/
This is an essential dynamic that gets too little attention.
“Don’t want your head to explode”
“At least buy me dinner first.”
Doesn’t make all that much sense, but if she’s smart she’ll realize that she accidentally referenced ejaculation.
Another Jew hit piece on Putin
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/paul-krugman-putin-neocons-and-the-great-illusion.html
I think you’re being unfair to Krugman. His wife wrecked him when it comes to his political views, not his Jewishness. On the other hand, I think it’s comical these people don’t understand sacrificing the short term welfare of your populace for their long term interests is what statesmen do.
What I’d do if I was Putin is cut supply dramatically until prices change and demand payment in rubles, especially from NATO members. This current situation might prompt Russia to be less open to being dependent on the West for capital, which would be detrimental to DC’s hegemony over the world.
Something else I’d do as Putin is buy all those gold contracts off the market and demand physical delivery. Not only is gold now at a pretty good price if you want to increase your reserves of it and dump USD on the market, I suspect if one started buying billions of those contracts and demand delivery, some nasty surprises would take place.
The russian tanks will roll in spring. You mess with someones money and that is reason for war. The target is apparent and obvious, the cause of the drop in oil price. The longer he waits, the poorer he gets…..
Had dinner and a couple of beers with friends and we talked about morality and gun control. A guy said that the US has higher criminality and I made the point that the demographic structure of America is completely different than Sweden’s so comparing the two countries is silly. This resulted in a debate over race and criminality that I logically owned, but a girl who was visibly uncomfortable by reality kept protesting. A common friend tried to explain to her that she really has no argument and that she’s emotional about the issue. Hence “Women value feelings far more than they value internally logical conversation.” being true when it comes to women about everything.
I felt like writing a field report too, but I don’t really have the memory to recall conversations well enough because I was progressively drunker as the night went on. Corporate Christmas parties = free booze. I met the girl I chose that night for lunch and there are two note worthy things:
1)I chose her because she has nice boobs. She kept looking at her own rack during lunch. I made a point not to, looking into her eyes or at other people. I wonder if she kept looking down in order to prompt me to check out her boobs
2)She said I make her feel like I want more than lunch from her and I asked her if she doesn’t think it’s normal given the situation. I initially felt like making her mention sex first in order to tease her about her having to buy me dinner first or something like that based on what she said. Instead I told her that I’m straight and she’s attractive, but that it takes more than that for the desire to materialize too. I kind of felt like she is a little soft/insecure and wouldn’t react positively to me teasing her.
Your daily black on black crime. This time nine were shot.
#blacklivesmatter. Lol, not to black “teens”.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/23/shot-at-miami-basketball-court-in-drive-by-suspect-on-loose/
“A 20 year old Frenchman of African origin.”
Lol it’s just comical at this point. Fuck you, Jewish liars.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-gripped-by-fear-at-christmas-after-third-street-attack-in-three-days-9943109.html
OT
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/raging-son-battered-naked-man-4867749
“She invited Mr McKellar upstairs as she was “worried someone would come in”.
But, the court heard her son then suddenly returned home in the early hours and found his mum in bed with Mr McKellar.
He barged the door open and yelled: “What are you doing? How could you do this to my dad?”
His father John Mahan was working offshore at the time.
The court heard there was then a “prolonged assault” lasting up to 20 minutes on Mr McKellar, which involved repeated punching.
Mahan then turned on his mum slapping her on the head and calling her “a slut”.”
Instead of “frigid” he could have said “you’re tease who’ll turn them on; leave them burning and then you’re gone”
her: dont want your head to explode
me: Behave…
“Behave” always works for me in reframing, sexualizing, or just passing a shit test.
Or the old standard: “Ghey”…
If the OP would have said that she would have immediately been backpedalling.
“Frigid” is too overt…it’s too “try hard”.
Some advice here would be appreciated. Is it beta or alpha to send a christmas message to people who are your work acquaintances? game principles included would be most welcome. thanks