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Do women engage in the female version of pump and dump? A reader describes:
I learned something new: the pity date. It’s when the girl relents and goes out with a guy she has no attraction for. It’s the female version of pump and dump. Alphas go out with girls they don’t care for, but at least get sex out of it. There’s no sex on a pity date.
I’ve known plenty of women who went on dates with guys they never seriously entertained as sexual prospects. You pick up lots of insight into the female condition when you become part of their in-group, either through massive social proof or long-term dating of one of their friends. And, yes, women do the equivalent of the male pump and dump; they will date “practice men” for their nonsexual attention, just like they will string along beta orbiters for their emotional support. Women who date unwitting suckers and have no intention of banging them — call it ‘chump a hump’, or ‘stroke a dope’ — are typically women who haven’t dated in a long while, are horribly narcissistic, and need a man to dote on them. Most women at most times, though, won’t date men under false pretenses. There’s too much risk to a woman, both in lost time and unpredictable male reaction, to make that kind of investment with no promise of romantic fulfillment.
A reader wonders about game saturation.
Will playing the White-Knight ever become optimum strategy with women?
Consider that the concepts of Game/Being a cocky jerk are pretty well known among most healthy 20-35 year old guys; will the ‘edge’ that Game theoretically provides be eroded over time?
My purpose in life is to trade the financial markets and parley a small amount of money in to a fortune. When a given strategy is employed by the masses, any edge that it may once have provided is destroyed… running counter to the crowd might actually present the greatest opportunity.
White knighting is not a totally hopeless beta male strategy. Some tomboys and fully inculcated feminists appreciate it and will reward these men with the honor of licking their clits. A woman who has been dumped by one too many asshole boyfriends will sometimes veer wildly into the arms of a heavily emoting mangina and reward his months of “being there for her” with a gentle moment of anhedonic intimacy, which quickly reminds her how much she misses the less gallant ministrations of jerks. And of course, women past their primes or never in their primes — fugs, fatties, cougars, single moms — who can’t get a sexy man to commit to them to save their lives, will respond to their limited sexual marketplace options by opening up to the possibilities of dating herbly betas. This is why 35 year old tubbos are the most insistent about not dating jerks; they are the women least able to secure a jerk’s attention.
As far as game losing its theoretical edge, it won’t happen. Sure, a few benumbed routines or negs which have made the rounds will occasionally incite backlash from a hottie, but the theory and general strategy of game will never get old, much the same way a pretty face, perky tits, and firm, round ass will never get old with men. When innate, largely immutable sexual desire is properly satisfied, it never seeks inferior means of satisfaction.
This reader wants to know the limitations of vulnerability game.
I was a shy, nerdy kid who got picked on in junior high. I’m 33 now and am not carrying any baggage from those days, but would you tell a woman you were dating about your nerdy past, even if you’re over it?
On one hand, I would think that bringing it up and joking about it demonstrates confidence she would find attractive. But a lot of women spend their lives endlessly recreating their teenage dramas, and nobody wants to think they got stuck with the class geek. Thoughts?
If I were a guy with a nerdy past, I would bring it up only if there was an opportunity to capitalize on it, such as the scenario where easing a girl’s insecurity about my unattainability were an issue. To be honest, the best game resides in talking about (or acting in) the present and the future. Discussions about the past tend to get bogged down in beta sentimentality and quickly become boring for the girl since she wasn’t there with you when all those things happened.
Comfort building does normally require some talk about your past, and verbally demonstrating higher value through stories is tough without resorting to past experiences. A good way to contextualize your nerdy past to maximize its attractiveness potential is to frame it so that you are a worldly, sexually experienced adult man who fondly recalls his clumsy puppy crushes and how little you knew about women then that you know now:
“It’s funny, but even though I know so much about love now, there was a time when I had no wisdom about women. I was kind of nerdy and would have these awkward puppy crushes on the beautiful popular girls — while totally ignoring all the nerd girls who liked me! — and bravely go up to them saying the stupidest things. A part of me misses that time of life when I was innocent and naive. Now I know too much.” [HEAVY SIGH]
I would avoid talking at all about the bullies who picked on you in high school. That’s just own-goal DLV, man. No need to go down that road.
Help is on the way!
Any techniques or maneuvers that will allow me to pull or bag some cougars/milfs? im clueless as to if the general rules of game apply when trying to get with women that are atleast 10 years older than me. Im 21 by the way.
Yes. Show up.
Hahahaha! I keel myself!
What’s that, you say? That’s not the answer you were looking for? Ok. A more serious reply.
Women generally don’t like to date younger men, although the more romantically miserable of them do occasionally entertain the idea of fucking them. Women are wired to desire male status, and older male age is one component of that status. However, a certain type of highly-charged, libidinous, high T cougar wholly in love with her former glory will relish the deflowering of a younger man. As Ben Franklin admonished a younger male acquaintance: “and lastly, they are so grateful!”
So, some ground rules.
1. Be confident. Contrary to popular perception, an older woman does not want to feel like a mother hand-holding a stuttering dweeb. She wants to be desired and pursued by a horny man.
2. Run the same game on older women as you do on younger women (with one minor exception). A woman’s sexuality doesn’t radically change with the advent of years. Does a man’s penis change with years to bestir for ugly women? No.
3. Realize that older women, no matter how much they protest, subconsciously know that their value has diminished. This makes them less judgmental of your errors and more open to less-than-ideal romantic possibilities. Constantly remind yourself of this and you will have no trouble keeping your confidence high around them.
4. The one exception is that older women are less tolerant of asshole game, inconsiderate behavior, or player vibes. Not because they don’t desire these things in men, but because they know that such men are almost unattainable for them and least likely to commit in any form to them. As a woman ages, she tends to become more accepting of beta male behavior. Buy an older woman a drink and, unlike her younger competition, she just might reward you with her… ahem… vigorously hewn vulva.
5. Under no circumstances should you bring up the age difference. Act like it means nothing to you. If she brings it up, reframe. Tell her she’s actually a bit young compared to the women you normally see. She’ll know it’s a lie but she’ll eat it up nonetheless. Lie to me, I promise I’ll believe…
Picking up the hostess with the mostess.
I have been reading the blog for awhile now and firmly believe it’s the best out there. Great work!
There is a situation at a restaurant near my house that is of concern. This restaurant is within walking distance of my house, so my roommates and I frequent often. I recently met at hostess/drink running girl. The first time I met her (as she was walking by with drinks), she smiled, I immediately opened her, we had nice/short platonic conversation. She had to go run drinks out (she said she would be right back) but I wasn’t going to stay and wait so that was that.
A week later we are back in the restaurant and she is working the hostess stand. I go up (pretending to forget her name) and start another conversation. This one is longer and more personal. She is asking me a lot of personal questions. The conversation ends when a customer comes up and asks for a ‘to go order.’ She again says that she will be back, I again leave.
2 weeks later we are back at the same restaurant eating dinner (we are known regulars there, so I am stalking). She brings out our drinks to the table and says hi. We finish up eating, pay the bill and begin exiting. I told my friend to meet me outside. I went up the girl and told her:
Me: ‘I want to see you outside of this place’
Her: ’I have a boyfriend’
Me: ‘I have a girlfriend’
Her: ‘I’ll be right back’ (at this point, I am pretty frustrated with her flightiness but I’ll wait for a sec since I see that she is delivering drinks and will be right back)
She straight back over.
Me: ‘You cant have friends?’
Her: ‘Keep coming in and we will see what happens’
That was it. Haven’t been back in since. I don’t want to orbit this girl but I definitely know that she is interested, boyfriend or not. I cant really avoid the place because they have great food/drinks and my roommates always want to go. I know getting familiar with the help at restaurants is the way to go (I’ve been successful in the past) but I am sorta unsure with this one. Any advice would be much appreciated.
I like the boldness of your final push and the reframe of her BF aversion, but I think there was too much platonic chit chat on previous days you talked to her, and the boldness might have come across incongruent to her, like a last ditch effort when all else has failed. Your game here comes perilously close to “Surprise! I have a penis!” anti-game.
Leaving aside for the moment that she actually has a boyfriend (a claim that is either belied when she titillated you with her suggestion to “keep coming in and we’ll see what happens”, or evidence of her poor, cockteaser character), I think she has put you in a spot where every time you go back you will be perceived as dancing to her tune. Not the stuff great seductions are made of.
My advice to you would be to ignore her the next time you’re in her restaurant. She sounds like the type of girl who likes to flirt with men and fill them with hope. To neutralize that, make her hamster go warp speed. Go out of your way to flirt with another girl or another waitress so that she sees it. Bring a date there, or a female friend willing to act as your pivot.
If you wish to be more direct than that, you could attempt to reengage her on terms more favorable to a sexual outcome. “I’m afraid I have to take back my offer. My mom said I’m not allowed to date waitresses.”
Of course, she really could be down to fuck, but I’d only be able to know if that’s the case for sure by observing her body language as she’s interacting with you.