What, ultimately, is the cause of the decay happening in the West?
Reader carolyn writes:
[do] all young women nowadays go for the alpha exclusively, disdain the beta?
there must be women even now who size themselves up realistically. and don’t shoot for the unattainable, or more accurately, the alpha who’ll use them but never settle for them.
my own experience back when dinosaurs roamed the earth as the baby-faced ‘fattie’ (so dreaded around here) led to a fear of any overly aggressive ‘alpha’ types that came my way. i just knew intuitively it would not end well. i aspired to get a smart guy, hopefully one with a sense of humor; a _cool_ guy was out of the question. which characterized the man i married. sorry to refer to my own experience but it’s the one i know best.
my point is that there must be plenty of young women out there with a similar mindset. did all girls suddenly become stupid?
I would answer it’s not a question of exclusive vs inclusive, smart vs stupid, right vs wrong. Female hypergamy (and male preference for younger women) just IS. It’s a fact of life, and society accommodates it or corrals it depending on its goals. It’s best to think of women’s love of alphas as residing along a sexual/personality continuum (mediated by the wiring of the hindbrain), where at one end we see the thug lovers who run back to boyfriends who beat them up, and at the other end we have the wilting flowers who prefer the less volatile alpha males drawn from the pool of soft betas.
As society relaxes its controls of female sexuality — and unleashed female sexuality is the wilder and more fluid and more dangerous of the sexes — more women rush to the “thug lover” side of the hindbrain continuum, and away from any latent preference for dutiful betas. Conversely, when society strengthens its controls over female sexuality, something close to the opposite happens: women are incentivized to favor the company of beta males.
Thug loving serves a useful purpose in evolutionary terms. The sons of thugs make better protectors of the tribe, and in point of fact stupider, thuggier people outbreed smarter, empathetic people. Experiments in fruit flies have actually proven the concept of an emergent idiocracy.
Soft alpha/beta loving serves a useful purpose in civilizational terms. The sons of K selected women make better builders and maintainers of prosperous societies.
Both strategies come with their weaknesses and strengths, but it has to be said that, in most practical senses, the evolutionary goals are at odds with the civilizational goals. In simpler terms: what’s good for the individual man or woman is not necessarily, or very often, good for a prosperous society. This has been a core concept here at the Chateau since its inception.
And so a great truth about humanity is revealed that liberals mostly, and conservatives to a lesser degree, have trouble wrapping their brains around.
Jason Malloy, a drive-by commenter at blogs I occasionally read, usually has very smart things to say about the form a dystopia might take, and the factors that lead to cultural and national dissolution. When he writes, I generally give his words more than a second’s thought. And lately, his words have been echoing much of what is written here.
The larger sorting patterns [seen in rates of dysfunction between the upper and lower classes] need to be viewed through the lens of latent behavioral variation. Social pressures were already biased towards high investment reproduction. People were shamed for having premarital sex or children outside of marriage. Female economic dependency was just one more practical limit on these behaviors. However, once prosperity and secularism unraveled the cultural expectations, only internal behavioral motivators were left, and the motivations previously dampened and suppressed through practical and social limits could now express themselves.
The internal motivators tend to form a psychological and behavioral package: some people are oriented towards higher investment reproduction and this entails higher cognitive ability, long term goals about education and career, later first intercourse, fewer and more stable relationships, reproduction within secure pairbond, and mate selection biased towards reliability and parenting qualities. Other people are oriented towards lower investment reproduction and this entails lower cognitive ability, few long term goals, early first intercourse, more sex partners and less stable relationships, reproduction outside of pairbond, and mate selection biased towards “sexy” qualities (looks, charm, creativity, athleticism). (Many of these traits are functionally related (e.g. lower IQ mostly is a major cause of higher time preference), but they are also compounded through assortative mating).
***
[Re: the upper half of women having sex before marriage but still getting married.]
As much as I appreciate [Charles] Murray’s sociological perspective, I think this is his weakness as a bio-conservative trying to piece together the trends. The upper and the lower classes aren’t sorting by cognitive ability, so much as they are by life history behavior (which also includes cognitive ability).
A conservative libertarian has a lot to grapple with here: freedom and prosperity are the real “culprits” here, and their interaction with natural genetic variation. Not the welfare state. Not the government. Not apathetic elites. Not globalism or “stagnant wages”. Any major reversals in these trends would seemingly require major, forceful social controls, because they are the consequences of a very pervasive kind of individualism and of freedom of thought.
Chew on that. Realize what is being said here. If you do, you should feel a shudder descend your spine. Individualism and freedom of thought are the enemies of the very values and morality which gave birth to them and elevated them to primacy among advanced nations.
What libertarian, conservative OR liberal could read and accept the above premise and not feel at least some elemental — some PRIMAL — part of his worldview shatter into a million pieces. Libertarians: laissez faire means the cementing of intractable human hereditary differences into antagonistic classes and milieus. Conservatives: freedom and prosperity mean a slackening of external behavioral motivators and the erosion of commonality and shared values and the means with which to argue for them. Liberals: nonjudgmental individualism means a collapse of social capital and a surrender of any moral or aesthetic authority.
None of this is to say that people would, or should, prefer to live in less prosperous, backward nations. I don’t see too many Westerners clamoring to move to Zimbabwe for the quality of life. And yet, there has to be a recognition among the cognoscenti that a deeply embedded human nature exists, and that this nature — immutable, unalterable, suppressed only with great effort — when allowed to fully express or, alternately, when stifled at great psychic expense guarantees the slow unwinding of the very prosperity it desires and refuses to relinquish when it achieves.
Maxim #1,000: Prosperity contains within it the seed of its own destruction.
Could this ever not be the case? Perhaps if there were not significant differences in ability and talent between people and groups of people, differences in possession of civilizationally advantageous traits, you could say then that prosperity may become, theoretically, self-perpetuating. Feeding and growing without limit.
But evolution would not exist were that the case. Evolution would have to stop for such a social condition to manifest. Thus, we grapple with reality, whether we choose to or not. Because it grapples with us.
The prosperity America achieved will be her undoing. This isn’t idle apocalyptic talk. There is plenty of historical precedent. There are plenty of indicators that cultural and economic and lifestyle collapse are beginning their long march through the Western citizenry and institutions. The armies of disintegration have amassed and the first waves have stormed the citadel. Aided and abetted by people who don’t understand the forces at work, and who wouldn’t change direction even if they did understand. Prosperity is enervating. The will to dismantle it, temporarily, to save it, is weakened totally by the comforts it provides.
America is dying. Unless the powerful divest themselves from their voracious egos and accept that they have been steeped in a mountain of lies for 60 years, perhaps 150 years depending on your point of origin, and until that day they reverse the path they have taken this country, America’s slow, asphyxiating dying will finally, unmercifully, reach closure… in her death. Today, the Lords of Lies are our masters. Tomorrow, the truth will reign, over a rejuvenated America or a bitter wasteland. Either way, the truth will reign.
The Lords of Lies must first be defeated if the path we are on has a chance to be corrected. The only thing we know for certain is that they won’t go easily to their irrelevance.
Maybe reader Carolyn’s father didn’t blow smoke up her arse telling her that she’s the most beautiful girl in the world. Hence she had a more realistic view of her prospects.
well, he did. for the record i was his favorite, definitely a ‘daddy’s girl’. he was a wonderful father, god rest his soul. i feel privileged to be his daughter. he was a beta for sure; he worshiped the ground my mother walked on, seemingly astonished she took him seriously. prolly as a result, my 3 brothers are still married to their 1st wives, my sisters both divorced theirs for another man. all the women in my family don’t understand why i put up with my husband. aha hahaha aha haha. well enough already about that.
but reality has its way on intruding on our most cherished delusions. i was fat for crying out loud. and destined to stay that way given my doomed attempts to improve. for years it was the yo-yo syndrome. there was just no way to kid myself. thus my clear-eyed vision of my realistic prospects.
AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.
We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “Stick to the Devil you know.”
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
~R. Kipling
I wrote a big comment and lost it… but Rudyard Kipling said it far more eloquently than I. Thank you, Lakini
+1
Amen.
Today, the Lords of Lies are our masters. Tomorrow, the truth will reign, over a rejuvenated America or a bitter wasteland. Either way, the truth will reign.
The Lords of Lies must first be defeated if the path we are on has a chance to be corrected. The only thing we know for certain is that they won’t go easily to their irrelevance.
Eh, everything good always comes to an end. I am looking for a timeframe. If I recall correctly you predict a generation, so 20 years for this to come to fruition?
Well, well. Time to stock up on the survival gear?
Meanwhile, on the spectrum of libertarian-conservative-liberal, give me a libertarian economy and a conservative harsh law-and-order jurisprudence/justice system, and show the lefties the political door (and don’t let it hit them on the way out).
The libertarians will get rich, and build the enclaves and gated communities that can shield them from the hoi polloi. The conservative jurists and police will lock up the worst of the miscreants who are intellectually incapable of adapting to a knowledge driven world, while the libertarian gates will keep the the non-criminal riff raff out.
OH, wait…this is what is happening int he USA right now!! (Sorry lefties, Barack Obama and the financial crisis is just a blip on this societal trajectory).
Is this dystopian? Maybe, but it’s the best alternative we got goin’
Self-referential, see my LONG comment below.
Oh, one more thing: If the vote was restricted to veterans, a la Heinlein,
that might work too. The key is to restrict the vote SOMEHOW so
that the givers vote but not the takers.
Thor
I loved Starship Troopers. It is actually a profound book and the best intellectual defense of militarism I’ve ever read. I agree whole heartedly. I prefer Heinlein’s sytem although a draft would be the next best thing. It should include everyone that can reasonably serve, and allow for non-military options as well. I think its important for many reasons- it teaches one to be a giver and not a taker, and it forces one to work with and get along with every race and background, to complete something you didn’t want to do but are proud of afterwards, I’ve only experienced true diversity in the military and its probably the single best lesson I learned out of that time.
The mentality of modern Progressive elites is best described by Melville in Moby Dick, when he talks about the good people of Nantuckett who would create a utopia through their preaching of good puritan values and religion. he damns them throughout the book. I think the lack of contact with real America is one of the reasons our elites sell us out and despise us.
They are too isolated and cocooned to see it and universal service would go a long way to overcoming that. They despise the productive class, because not least, they see they are vulnerable in this regard. They could put in roads in Alaska or even in the third world if we wanted to use them for foreign aid. That would appeal to your 3rd World do gooder types as well. This is what the Nazis used the Labor Service (Arbeitsdienst) in WWII for. It was also organized along military lines so when the Germans sent a man to basic training, it was really advanced infantry training because the recruits had already learned to march and follow military routine. As Frederick the Great said “The Army is the school of the nation.”
Actually, a lot of the elite is quite productive, but prodductivity
at that level is hard to measure.
But a little piece: Where I went to engineering school, you
HAD TO do at least three months in a factory or equivalent.
In my case, I spent a hot summer climbing on ladders to the
ceiling removing old cables. Not a bad part of education,
actually.
Thor
The Army is where I came into contact with true “diversity” for the first time in my life… it made me the White Nationalist I am today… taught me firsthand the lies I had been fed in school and by the media about equality… also gave me a ringside seat in viewing what occurs when Negroes hold any sort of sway… cheating, thievery, and a racism that would make the most virulent Klansman blush.
On a more uplifting note, I agree that Starship Troopers should be required reading in every high school… you know, that place where American History is currently taught as little more than the heroic exploits of Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, and the Tuskegee Airmen.
I have long maintained that Liberalism contains within it the seeds of its own destruction. Rather like Maxim 1,000
Why does everyone — including most newbies in the PUA community — assume that an alpha male will pump-and-dump, always?
That’s not the case at all. Alpha males are exceptional males to marry, as long as the female understands her place in his life, stays feminine, keeps her body and cosmetic features healthy and sexy, and fulfills his needs.
My breakdown for men has always been revolved around the birds: chickens (betas/omegas), vultures (alpha pump-and-dumps) and hawks (alpha nest-protectors). Not all alphas are looking to score with a new pair of 10s every weekend.
Also, I want to know how old this female questioner is — is she 34 and past her prime for having babies and a home with an alpha 10-15 years her senior, or is she 19 and uncertain about how she can get herself a great, powerful and happy husband?
For many women who ask these questions, they’ve probably hit The Wall. They slept with too many vultures, ensnared too many chickens (and crushed them under their heels), and are now at a place in their lives where they can only find a beta provider, but they aren’t thrilled by them because their soul was pumped out of them repeatedly during their sexual and cosmetic prime.
Guys don’t have to ask these questions. Either they’re beta and love to promote the NAWALT line, or they’re alpha and already understand that evo-psych theories are more fact than theory.
As CH says — “it just is.” If you don’t agree, you’re left with very little in life to be proud of. All of that work for nothing. Well, maybe some nice girl who can cry to you about why all her future guys can’t be more like you. That’s something.
As a newbie one gets the pretty clear message that even if becoming a “hawk” is one’s long term goal, the current sexual marketplace rewards “vultures” a lot more.
Also there doesn’t seem to be a direct path for a student to take him from “chicken” to “hawk”.
Alpha mating strategy is definitionally low investment, spread your seeds wide.
The only possible solution for “Alpha nest protectors”, is someone with a large harem. Which is fiendishly difficult to maintain.
Do old people write about the apocalypse so much because *their* world is dying?
My generation doesn’t care about your lib/con/lib neapolitan.. in thirty years your ideological horsemen won’t even be relevant. The conservative ideocracy will have died off until they no longer matter as a political force and kids raised on the internet won’t need to cling to frivolous party lines. Apocalypse No.
Is this the blog post you’re going to link to when you write another ‘i told you so’ after the Euro falls?
Link-bait for old people… you really want more obligatory ‘why my marriage failed’ comments in every thread? Spend time with more young people.. you know.. the ones doing the actual fucking.
[heartiste: hey man i hear ya. i’m fucking without the imprimatur of marriage and as far as i’m concerned, this lifestyle suits me fine. that don’t mean the end ain’t coming.]
oh, that’s fine, CH, but you know i worry about your genetic material and i really think you should get married and have kids! this world doesn’t want to lose your wonderful DNA :’(
In a bourgeois society where everyone is wealthy, marriage as the norm becomes inevitable as it’s the best vehicle for creating and sustaining wealth and building families, hence it being called the bedrock of society. I’ve done both and there is the substantial qualitative difference of having made a legal commitment. I’ve been married twice and lived together as man and wife for seven years. Other times for far lesser periods. Both times I married, I had an Oh Shit! moment, for the first three or four days of marriage at least. Its not unlike the feeling you get when you realize you’ve just joined the Army and your life will now change dramatically. Most likely not the fantasy you had when you decided to marry. I’m very happily married now and my wife was a very good catch and still is. But even with her, I felt it as strongly as with the first wife that I divorced from. I never felt this when I lived together or moved in with someone, because in the back of your mind, there is this back door that you can always slip out of with relative ease if you are living together. In my case, I feel as if the commitment becomes a duty of honor to fulfill. I think that is what it is meant to be. Its important for building and transferring wealth intergenerationally. The alternative will become THX1138, after Brave New World starts to fail as a social model.
Their world is dying. The problem is; we’re stuck in the boat with them as it goes down.
Shocker: “My generation doesn’t care about your lib/con/lib neapolitan.. ”
What does your generation care about then? America is a constitutional two party system. LIb/con.
http://www.the-american-interest.com/article.cfm?piece=1187
“dictators die and the power they took from the people, will return to the people and so long as men die [now] liberty will never perish. . .”
It wasn’t too long ago when the changing of governments was measured in generations, and charlie chaplin reminds us of this. The wheel of time eventually crushes bad ideas.. but it turns s l o w l y
Just because you enjoy surfing a wave does not mean you have 2 ignore the rocks up ahead.
Headline for ya, kid… I said the same thing to all the naysayers some forty years ago, and now I see all their warnings come to fruition.
Stay tuned, your generation will have a ringside seat for the Apocalypse… and if you’re lucky some old man will teach you to hunt… or how to hunt to the hunters.
You are standing in the middle of the road about to be ran over and you don’t even realize it, but don’t feel bad. You have a lot of company.
“…theyre the ones doing the actual fucking,” So Alpha-Beta-Omega doesnt apply to you? “Spend time with more young people…” Thats the general idea!!!
I’m here for two reasons 1) I enjoy participating in communities at the forefront of developing something new. The best UK d&b and dub artists created the sound now taking over the world when they were nothings in UK ghettos. I used to get high with the slackliner who just got his 15 minutes doing the half-time show with Madonna, and I got to see him build his slacklife sub-culture from the ground up and he’s now living his life to the fullest. That creative identity forming journey is the sweetest adventure in boring american life, and CH with its wackjob regulars and backwards drudge report right wing slant is the closest thing I’ve found to cutting edge ghetto in a subject very dear to me- dropping panties. Reason 2, I want to spin plates. Most men never even see what it’s like when a girl is trying to get at an-demand guy. I’m talking go over to his house in a pea coat and nothing else because he plays basketball. Send him dirty texts at 2am in hopes he’ll let you come over. I’ve seen it my whole life, lately its the only sex I want and I want more of it. This is the only community I’ve found (other than bro culture) that comes close to describing the attitude and behavior to get tail to dance like this.
I call bullshit on this.
Bullshit at best, nigger babble/worship at worst.
I’ve experienced it, I had a girl take a bus for 45 minutes wearing nothing but an overcoat to surprise me at work. I married her and went beta. Now divorced. Lesson learned.
Fuck off with your kaffir narcissism. “Spin plates”, “dub artists”, “dirty texts” — another spoiled, dependent little urban eater with a god complex.
Go paint yourself brown you punk. You don’t deserve white skin as a uniform.
As our society sits right now, everybody just does whatever pleases them because doing so doesn’t lead to death, hunger, or shame like it would have hundreds of ago. All people are hedonistic whores at their core. Prosperity allows them to unleash that side of them with no immediate consequences.
[heartiste: therein lies one of the main problems with the current situation. the consequences aren’t immediate. and so the decay can continue unthwarted. works for me on a personal level, but not so good on a societal level.]
no, that’s not it. What’s happening is that investment in long term strategies…reproductive ones for the AFC’s out there…is being actively punished.
It’s not that we’re hedonists so much so as moral hazard is now the currency and cancer of the land.
Anyone who invests time or effort into a better end is a fool. Oh, you went to college and studied? sucker. low-IQ union thugs make more than you. You strived to be the best man for a girl based on beta literature?. Surprise, you are an undatedable beta.
Maybe you aren’t capable of hacking it with us low iq union thugs?
College is for bitches, faggots and sociology majors.
I don’t know what they teach in colleges where you go to, but I’m getting that engineering degree to actually -learn- to do something useful.
And then they hire a H1B1 over you to satisfy diversity requirements. And engineering degree…not exactly the life path rife with the bitches.
Don’t let the slack-jaws badmouth an engineering degree… it’ss your best shot at learning something useful and getting a decent job worthy of a man’s talent… diversity only goes so far, as many places (who actually have to get something accomplished) are learning.
My oldest son went the engineering route, and he’s been writing his own ticket since graduation two years ago… can’t say the same for his peers who pursued other less-demanding degrees.
…only for people not getting STEM majors and getting jobs that utilize that knowledge, such as my engineering degree and career.
“Anyone who invests time or effort into a better end is a fool. Oh, you went to college and studied? sucker. low-IQ union thugs make more than you. You strived to be the best man for a girl based on beta literature?. Surprise, you are an undatedable beta.”
Needed repeating.
Only the beta literature part.
Excellent observation. This is the other side of the coin.
“Anyone who invests time or effort into a better end is a fool. Oh, you went to college and studied? sucker. low-IQ union thugs make more than you. You strived to be the best man for a girl based on beta literature?. Surprise, you are an undatedable beta.”
All so true. Yet, a certain ethnic group isn’t being blamed for the idiocy and degeneracy of Amerikwa.
Hint: It isn’t the blacks.
http://age-of-treason.blogspot.com/2012/02/white-guide-to-jewish-narrative.html
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”
–like Kipling said
Agreed. And the consequences are not immediate. But this has been going on for so long that the “not immediate” is arriving. It already arrived in Greece, some other bum and beggar countries like Italy, Portugal and the US are soon to follow.
Thor
King A’s gonna love that shit.
Word. Anticipating sermon in 3…2…1…
King A (Sovereign truth his companion.) “I AM the Way …”
‘Then the prophecies of the old songs have turned out to be true, after a fashion!’ said Bilbo.
‘Of course!’ said Gandalf. ‘And why should not they prove true? Surely you don’t disbelieve the prophecies, because you had a hand in bringing them about yourself? You don’t really suppose, do you, that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck just for your sole benefit? You are a very fine person, Mr Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!’
‘Thank goodness!’ said Bilbo laughing, and handed him the tobacco-jar.
Damn straight… we’re fuckin’ spolied (and so are most women, especially).
Personally, I’m looking forward to the end
> Maxim #1,000: Prosperity contains within it the seed of its own destruction.
Spiderman had it first – with great power, comes great responsibility
Yeah, it’s the Fall of Rome all over again. The loss of the old republican virtues (small r), the explicily imperial role and an overweening state bureaucracy, open plutocracy and cronyism, decadence, debauchery, collapse. Our bread-and-circuses are reality TV and NASCAR. The republican virtues, and their associated order of fairness, law, and tradition, being, of course, what caused the prosperity. When they’re gone as a foundation- nowhere to go but down.
Not sure who our Alaric the Goth will be- maybe he’s an Hispanic toddler from East LA destined to make the cultural reconquista a political one, maybe a Muslim preacher inspired by the separatist mosques in the UK, maybe something else. Read St Augustine for a perspective on what it’s like to live through the collapse of a great civilization.
I think the saving grace might be that American democracy, aided by modern instantaneous media, is much more adaptable and responsive to popular anger than other systems with more rigid ruling classes. The two political parties have a history of quickly incorporating new movements into themselves to stay relevant in the competition for votes. This year, see: tea party, OWS, etc. It may be that the ruling class is forced to mend its ways. Perhaps not in time, or perhaps not in a way that shakes the SWPL ideology off.
In Ancient Greece, war was how this was dealt with. Fathers, sons, uncles, brothers, cousins all served in the phalanx together. When the major powers started hiring principally mercenaries to fight their wars after the Peloponesion War, Greece became decadent, eventually ending up under Rome.
In Switzerland, which suffers from exactly this problem, its mandatory military service goes a long way to creating social cohesion through mutual hardship. Switzerland is by far the most well run liberal state in the world. Everyone participates in the running of the state at at least this level of interaction and it makes Switzerland survive despite the rest of Europe desperately wanting to socialize it.
I also think this was a big reason Madison foresaw the creation of a national militia rather than a large standing army.
too tired to read this post … too difficult for me. i don’t understand it
Shocking.
not really. happens very often.
Don’t bother your pretty little head over this “man stuff”, honey.
“The only thing we know for certain is that they won’t go easily to their irrelevance”
But they will get old, retire, and die.
On a related note, overheard: “America is at that awkward stage — too late to work within the system, too early to start hanging her leaders.”
As much as people like to point to ‘religion’ as the cause of all wars, and an inherently malevolent and undesirable thing….
Could it be that faith in a God can be a major factor in preventing the decline in civilization, and that the widespread abandonment of faith has everything to do with uninhibited behavior? Behavior that is destructive, but not immediately so?
As the bible says, “sin is pleasurable for a season”
I’m not going to suggest that all this stuff proves the bible or anything, but there sure as hell seems to be a correlation. I see the abandonment of faith as driven by people’s desire to get back to their base barbarianism and be free of anything that suppresses them, even if that suppression was saving their life or preserving their own future.
The bible talks plenty about stifling our ‘sin nature’ and choosing to be MUCH more ethical, loyal, and consistent then we would be when left to our own devices.
I’d be curious to get anyone’s take on how this relates. Prosperity and technology is messing everything up, for sure… but perhaps it is doing so also by making it so easy for people to abandon faiths and thereby any semblance of morality.
We wouldn’t be having hypergamy problems if people still believed there was a hell waiting for them.
People say this is the enlightened age, where we don’t have to be slaves to the constructs of religion and archaic beliefs that were only designed for control and served no other purpose.
Some folks gotta learn the hard way…
Absolutely. Another interesting fact about faith is that it is consistently a major element in survival of difficult circumstances. The Turks lost by far the fewest POWs taken by the North Koreans because of their strong Muslim faith. This was also true of Americans and British troops taken as POWs. Those with the strongest religious faith survived in the greatest proportion. The Soviets experienced the same phenomenon too.
A, yes, the good old NKorean POW camps. Most instructive.
One of the reasons many US POWs fell for this is that they
were very naive, I mean this factually, not as a moral deficiency.
They typically had no breadth of understanding of Western
and specifically US culture and politics, what was great about
it and what the problems and putative problems were.
But more to the point, the NK officers KNEW EXACTLY
how to run this. The operant method is now well known,
then less so. The Chinese term is Hsi Nau, brainwash,
and is value-neutral, like laundry. Who would want
an old dirty brain when you can get it cleanied?
The overarching method does not have a name
AFAIK, but I will call it “Managed peer pressure”.
The term is deliberately value neutral, the method
is powerful and can be used for good or evil.
One of the subsets are therapy forms classed under
“Group Therapy” (also “anger management classes”,
“sensitivity training” etc ad nauseam). Here the
“class” is gathered under the tutelage of the
instructor/therapist. And he skilfully (often)
leads the sheeplings, creates a core of believers,
and peer pressure does most of the hard work.
Now this is fine if it can help people get off
the booze, get off obesity (cf. Weight Watchers)
etc. So it is not all bad.
Another possible version came out of the Rand
corporation, called the Delphi method, but relied
less on guiding the consensus.
Yet another almost hilarious version is the
bugs bunny disneyland
(google for it) version, which had the advantage
over the NK guys that they could be picky about
whom they worked with, but OTOH had no means
of force and little of intimidation to work with.
Google for it, seriously!
I think it is this as well as the distance our elites enjoy from nature and from those who must live closer to nature by producing something rather than living from rent seeking. We have stages or classes of prosperity, each of the lower ones imitating the class right above it. Only the very upper classes can enjoy a life free from responsibility and they imitate the lowest classes in this manner, forming a grand circle of shifting power. The wealthy families that have retained wealth for tens of generations are strict with how they bring up their children and force them to endure hardships in order to give them at least an artificial sense of death’s lurking chill breath.
This is why we need some form of national service, a draft plus other types of service. helping forest rangers, or working in hospitals, etc. It builds a common sense of cohesion and forces the elites to be exposed to other people and cultures. I think this is a big reason the elites and th4e SWPLs who imitate them, have such a mania for diversity. In their own lives, they have so little.
Yup. Although I am personally not a believer in the big boss
monkey in the sky, I nevertheless see the wisdom of such
things as the Ten Commandments. Some believe they were
of divine origin, many such as yours truly do not. But either way,
they are a brilliant invention to keep intra-tribe fighting down,
which is to the benefit of just about everybody in the tribe,
in the long run. (Never mind the intro commandments,
which are packaging to enforce and legitimize the rest –
or at least that’s how I see it. )
Thor
Good point… and as Napoleon was said to have remarked, in warfare, the spiritual outweighs the material three to one.
Reading the Bible teaches us that human nature really has not changed much in the few thousand years we have of recorded history. When those in power ,under pressure from ignorant, short-sighted leaders of special interest groups, enact laws contrary to human nature you get what we have in America today.
Today’s schools are the source of indoctrination for leftist purposes. We, and an increasing number of families, homeschool so we can control when and how our children learn about the world. And so we can teach them to hunt, fish, make leather from scratch, and how to cook over a campfire, in addition to how to kick serious butt on Halo.
Honestly, the ultimate act of stupidity, for example, is to kill a child because it is “inconvenient.” Children are how we procreate-duh! You kill your future when your kill your children. Our Founding Fathers were spot on limiting government power. If government did only what is was constitutionally allowed to do I doubt we’d be as broke as we are right now.
Whitney Houston died today as a result of indulging her penchant for sensual pleasures. All that fame and money meant nothing once she was hooked on drugs. She is a perfect example of how our sinful earthly self can fall prey to pleasures of the flesh which last only as long as the flesh does. However, the intangible pleasures of influence on ones’ children, etc. are of the spiritual realm and will reverberate through history,however silently. Which isn’t all that gratifying to one’s ego but one must pick one’s poison,eh?
H.G.Wells’ “The Time Machine” shows how pitiful humanity’s attempts at grandiose proclamations of fame are: far into the earth’s future the Traveler finds a nearly-dead planet. All of our portraits, history books, news articles,etc.are long dust. Of what use is fame then?
Humility is a useful concept, much as that concept might not sit well with this blog.
P.S. I am an extremely alpha female.
http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Religion/Average-intelligence-predicts-atheism-rates-across-137-nations-Lynn-et-al.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
“Tolerance the chief virtue of those who believe in nothing.”
What we need in the West is Christian shari’a. I say this as a “hard determinist”. If religion — that is, the pathological belief in invisible agency presiding over and influencing events — was adaptive, it’s as necessary to social health as exercise and green vegetables. It is great bloody fun to wage war upon christers and hopers, but at the end of this, what we need to combat liberal society is believers.
A society overcome by atheism is spineless (France). A society with a healthy religious sense is indomitable no matter how fierce the enemy (Lebanon).
Unfortunately, HBD has revealed that these variables are fairly precisely correlated with the coefficient of inbreeding; so the most out-bred or least consanguineous groups, Europeans and Northwest Europeans especially, are thus the most liberal in the world, indeed invented liberalism, while the rest of the world is some degree more in-bred or nearly related, thus exhibiting greater religiosity and ethnocentrism.
And that’s what we’re after, isn’t it. The white make must reawaken to himself — in fact awaken to himself as he never has before.
But too much is in the way of that. If we can’t even say “We don’t want Mexicans here because they are not us” without controversy, we certainly will never see the day when government turns its eye on population genetics.
We’d be better off just importing a few hundred-thousands of Pashtuns to run wild on the kaffirs, beaners and kikes.
Prosperity is not the root of the problem. Sure, strictly speaking has prosperity given females more access to pursue alpha beyond the tribal days when they might know 100 males their entire life? Yes, but….
This country experienced unprecedented prosperity in the 1950s and families in that age lived much better than even the kings of 100 years ago before them. Yet….there was less premarital sex and less social decay than today and the USA was ascending, not declining.
What I’m saying is prosperity beyond a certain point is irrelevant, or at least has rapidly diminishing returns beyond a relatively low level of security and comfort in life. Through a caveman’s eyes, the level of wealth between 1950 and 2012 is negligible.
What has changed are social and cultural norms, and I’m of the view much of this arises from the welfare state. Want to subsidize laziness, drug habits, and single motherhood? Reward them by giving them welfare money! Want to subsidize 4 year sex and booze parties that have become a rite of passage for an entire generation? Give everyone a loan for college!
It’s the growth of government that has caused this decay, specifically the welfare state. NOT prosperity. The USA has been the most prosperous nation for a long time and prior generations maintained and advanced civilization.
I cannot but agree.
Thor
The country was prosperous in the fifties, but the effect of men abrogating their responsibilities and women realizing they were no longer bound by the old mores took a few years to have effect… witness the sixties and beyond… it didn’t take long.
Without said prosperity, no respect for the “tune in, turn on, drop out” bullshit… and no extra money for welfare nanny-state garbage.
Eviscerate Leviathan, and you reintroduce consequences for foolish behavior.
Agree. Sadly.
This is your magnum opus. Let’s see the Roosh worshippers process this through their anti-Americanism filters. Some dark truths will emerge.
Well, it took a while for a semi-educated curious gentleman like me to get my head around evo psych, game, and the other well-known chateau paradigms.
Good luck with the ADD crowd out there.
Whether the ship is sinking or not, I don’t think we’re gonna get the definitive answers in our lifetime, and civilization as we know it is by definition always walking on a tight rope, and faces many more challenges…
Besides, leftists will never capitulate. Egalitarianism and other memes are deeply ingrained in their little heads, perhaps another evolutionary advantage.
Women don’t need men for money, security, protection, or employment. They need men for one thing. Babies. And those that don’t want babies? They can do whatever the fuck they want. And that is who I date. She’s got her own house, own money, own career. No marriage. No kids. It’s the golden age, motherfuckers. Enjoy it.
There’s a scene in Metropolis where the aristos are partying and dancing and one broad joyously cries out:
“Wir wollen sehen, wie die Welt zum Teufel geht!”
That sort of hedonistic nihilism is not befitting a White man.
A man who calls this “the golden age” is truly led by his other head.
You think prosperity was behind the proto counter culture revolution? Pretty shocking if true.
Personally, I think there’s more to it than that. Western culture was corrupted / weakened. I think the fact that (relatively) many young, probably alpha, men died during the world wars is significant and that this had a weakening effect on society.
Sentimentality is the corruption [1]. I don’t think necessarily that an easy prosperity, that allowed it to be humoured without consequence, is the deciding factor though.
Maybe the mind virus of sentimentality was introduced into W.S. by immigrants and/or people returning from postings to the colonies.
(Side note: All this feels like 12 Monkeys but not as bad–could be maybe some day though.)
[1]: See:
http://www.amazon.com/Not-Bang-But-Whimper-Politics/dp/1566637953
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoilt_Rotten:_The_Toxic_Cult_of_Sentimentality
I think women’s influence naturally became stronger with the decimation of alpha males. Even betas were tough and strong in those days. Sentimentalism suddenly seemed morally right as a reaction to the wars in the first half of the 20th century. In addition, this sentimentalism was also manipulted through Soviet efforts to undermine western culture and prepare it for Communism. This is what Kruschev was implying when he said the West would fall to Communism without a shot being fired. If you look closely, nearly all popular SWPL views are Marxist in nature.
“Sentimentalism suddenly seemed morally right as a reaction to the wars in the first half of the 20th century.”
Interestingly, Dalrymple writes about this in “The New Vichy Syndrome,” [1] using the plays that came out just after the war to show how society had become more sentimental.
“In addition, this sentimentalism was also manipulted through Soviet efforts to undermine western culture and prepare it for Communism.”
Excellent point. Indeed they’re still doing it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9051835/Russia-says-Wests-UN-effort-over-Syria-path-to-civil-war.html
This seems to me a piece of agitprop, designed to appeal to a certain type of Westerner, sentimentally. (Syria is already at Civil war and Russia wants the brutal regime to crush the uprising because of the economic connections it currently has with its dictator.)
“If you look closely, nearly all popular SWPL views are Marxist in nature.”
Soviet Russia. Has there ever been a more evil empire?
[1]: http://www.amazon.com/New-Vichy-Syndrome-Intellectuals-Surrender/dp/1594033722
“If you look closely, nearly all popular SWPL views are Marxist in nature.”
Yep. You’re an idiot if you can’t distinguish fashion from ideology.
I’ll give you one little hint here. It starts with j, ends with w, with a vowel between.
That ought to set the goyish hamster a-spinning!
Prosperity is what allows poisonous culture and ideology to fester unchecked. People feel less motivated to do something about things that morally outrage them but aren’t an immediate threat when their lives are good. What is needed is a core culture that emphasizes vigilance regardless of how good we have it.
Minorities are largely just pawns in the higher game played by the left wing victimhood cult. They are convenient targets because it’s a lot easier to convince huge groups of minorities they are oppressed by The Man. Most people simply aren’t principled enough to not take a free lunch when it is offered to them.
“What is needed is a core culture that emphasizes vigilance regardless of how good we have it.”
Huh. A core culture. Something like this perhaps:
– Inner core (strict adherents)
– Outer core1 (socially mobile adherents)
– Outer core2 (socially mobile advocates)
– Periphery (broad base of socially mobile opportunists)
Man, if a people could pull off that kind of cultural strategy, they’d have an enormous social advantage!!! It’s a good thing everyone with white skin is the same as everyone else with no divergent interests (< genes)!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
Leftism=Ressentiment
You know the “star of David” isn’t a star, but a shield.
Now I see why.
The answer to this question determines how civilization fares long-term:
Is our governing ideology of anti-racism a blip that appeared several decades ago and disappears at some point in the relatively near future like a bizarre historic anomaly, or is it here to stay?
Or, more worrisome still, is it anti-racism not merely a tool of Jewish virulence in neutering white societies — but the end result of low ethnic consanguinity among white populations?
If so, even hanging the buggers wouldn’t change a thing. Unlike most people I don’t subscribe to a “cyclical” view of history; time-keeping, out-breeding, memetic stratification, and technological development all establish history (itself the reflex of time-keeping) as linear, despite similarities or repetitions. Thus what we are experiencing is more like a critical mass than “another” imperial decay that will reset human affairs to some history book norm. That isn’t how ecology goes, and it isn’t how ecology in the age of globalism will go.
We are at this point because of mating patterns.
Switzerland has this problem and counters it by making everyone serve in the military or some form of national service. Everyone participates in running the state to at least this degree. Heinlein would be proud.
There is too little freedom, not too much. What one sees is fear, whether one is looking at the global warming cultist, or a pretend Christian like King A, one sees the same thing: panic in the face of a supposedly meaningless universe.
The left struggles to impose its “green” vision, the right attempts to revive a dead God.
It’s the same cowardice.
The rhetoric of apocalypse is always the same: we are guilty; we have gone too far; we have exceeded our bounds and must be punished. It’s the heart of the religious idea.
But man is God — and he created the myths of the great religions because he intuited and feared his own powers.
As these powers are increasingly realized in a practical sense, and human beings take better control of their genetic code and their bodies, we will move on to the serious problems.
The human virus wants to spread everywhere and there are practical challenges to this desire. The meaning of the world is the war between sentience and materials.
Exactly. More laws have been made against heterosexual male behavior in the past 15 years than in the previous 4000 years before that.
Anyone who can come here and think American alpha males are supposedly more hedonistic than their counterparts from previous generations, simply doesn’t understand what alpha males of past generations were getting away with and just how much heterosexual males have been restrained recently. There’s a lot of denial in this comment section.
Can an American boss fuck his secretary now like he could have fucked all his middle to lower class female workers a century ago? Hell no. Hedonism is over for that now. Would it have mattered a century ago if the secretary was 17 or even 15? Hell no. Now the American business world is locked down tighter against “hedonism” than the business world of most societies in history.
Do you think it’s really all that cool that Hugo Schwyzer is being taken down by the feminists because they just can’t accept that he fucked his adult students in the past despite his efforts at repenting? Think about that carefully when you suggest that the left is promoting hedonism. Quite the opposite.
50 years ago a US president could have an open affair with a 19 year old intern and nobody would talk about it for half a century. That was your so-called hedonism, the norm since the beginning of time. But the new society that prudish feminists and white knighters gave birth to with Clintongate was one that clamped down hard against this birthright hedonism of all males with power since the beginning of time. Destroying the patriarchy = killing off hedonism.
So please, let’s get a clue here. Despite all the racy Youtube videos and TV shows, on the ground with all the new laws of the past 15-30 years, the US is more prudish (behind the scenes where it counts) than most societies ever before in history. And that is because of feminism which doesn’t want men to have fun and enjoy any perks of power.
“But man is God — and he created the myths of the great religions because he intuited and feared his own powers.”
This is pure romanticism, you know.
“The human virus wants to spread everywhere and there are practical challenges to this desire. The meaning of the world is the war between sentience and materials.”
I don’t believe you and xsplat are entitled to belief in this eugenic age to come, but this is one of the most succinct statements of the ‘human condition’ I’ve ever seen, possibly the most. Well done.
Institute a policy to give people a life time ticket on the government doll at above poverty line payouts in exchange for a visit to the sterilizing facility. Make everyone inherit $0 and give them equal access to advancement. The scum will choose the life of leisure since a government paycheck and a part time job is all that is necessary to fulfill their desires. If work was available that payed at successively better rates but demanded our desirable personality traits, than the lazy parasites/predators will sort out. We will be left with people who simply like to parasitize/predate for fun and rules will deal with that. Oh, wait. I don’t think people li ke government programs and equal access/opportunity.
I think you mean, you get welfare if you get sterile.
OK. Add that you can’t vote once you sign up.
Thor
Muslims resolved this by Sharia, treating women like property and successful, prominent men getting four wives (like Mohammed) while the others have to die jihad-ing to get the “72 virgins.”
There are many possible paths prosperity can lead to. The one most people in the West as chosen, does lead to ruin (for them). But that does not imply all possible prosperities do.
The goal is to identify some that does not, and go out and populate the world with people capable of understanding that distinction. While, and this is important, at a minimum passively and possibly actively, work to exterminate those that don’t.
After all, if subgroup A can create more prosperity than B, and more prosperity allows for both better weapons and more adult offspring, evolutionary bias is in favor of prosperity creators. Running around being a stupid thug only leads to superior mating prospects in a society where your betters don’t bother putting up a fight. As long as prosperity creators breed quickly enough to put resource pressure on competing groups, and have the sense to at the minimum defend themselves; and possibly actively press their weapons advantage for more Lebensraum, good luck destitute, weaponless and impoverished thuggo-soon-to-be-dogfood.
I’m hearing this as lead by example and an incentive to procreate. Hear that men? Find a worthy woman, take off your condoms, and reproduce. Reproduce for our lives!!!!
(oh, and would somebody scout a location for the commune?)
It’s also a recognition that sitting by idly and letting those who neither procreate nor produce, strip you of wealth you could otherwise invest in your offspring and those who form support around them, is a surefire road to ruin.
A society rewarding and making excuses for leeching, grows leeches at a faster rate than both one who routes around them, and one who actively seeks to purge them. Judging by the multimillennial successes of religions espousing non aggression, my bet would be on the route around over the more aggressive variety.
Before Social Security and other pension plans across the
Western world, children (mostly) felt an obligation to
care for their aging parents. And low nativity was not
a problem, even when contraception was available,
at least to the middle class.
Thor
Masque of the Red Death, baby. We are still partying now. For now, I should say.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masque_of_the_red_death
……”Libertarians: laissez faire means the cementing of intractable human hereditary differences into antagonistic classes and milieus. Conservatives: freedom and prosperity mean a slackening of external behavioral motivators and the erosion of commonality and shared values and the means with which to argue for them. Liberals: nonjudgmental individualism means a collapse of social capital and a surrender of any moral or aesthetic authority.”…..
This is a good writing. Keep it up. Very insightful
Read the Old Testament. Rife with examples of Israel getting prosperous due to God’s protection and blessings, they get fat and lazy, turn to foreign gods, began living a (very) hedonistic lifestyle, and BAM, God has to let a foreign nation conquer them or harass them.
When they’ve been brought down, then they can return to their roots and climb the road to prosperity again.
History repeats. With. Every. Single. Empire.
We’re already living in an intellectual dystopia. Freedom, liberty, equality, diversity: nouns deconstructed, nothing more than bromidic newspeak, their antonyms thoughtcrimes patrolled by Ingsocian demagogues.
I can rationalize the mind-numbing insanity by a belief that this liberal trajectory is a civilizational hiccup, one that’s necessary for future generations to glean and move forward from positions of responsibility and confidence.
On the other side the antipodes of progressive decay await. I see a homogeneous society, one based on hierarchy, and the reality of differences in human capital, one where the past glories of European Man are extolled, a culture that imbibes the evil of liberalism and the folly of its European descended practitioners, e.g., Ted Kennedy(curse his soul).
Preach it brother! Well written.
It’s certainly hard to miss the connection between my own spoiled, lazy generation and the degredation of natural systems. American oppulance certainly bares a large part of the responsibility for “the decline”.
BUT I think you’re looking at this in a pretty black/white either/or frame and discounting a basic law of natural systems: bio diversity.
In any ecosystem, a healthy thriving diversity of life is much more stable and successful than a monoculture that seeks stability by making everything the same (aka virus).
I’d say the “unraveling” that scares us as a “society” is just an explosion of human cultural (bio)diversity that will only destabilize the asphixiating monoculture but actualy help the various “individuals” in the mix to flourish.
Oops. Someone’s rationalized the “diversity” lie.
In any ecosystem, a healthy thriving diversity of life is much more stable and successful than a monoculture that seeks stability by making everything the same (aka virus).
What if I told you that there exists a Caucasoid subrace whose evolutionary strategy is virulent behavior which expresses itself as a relentless crusade white ethnic identity and the lie that “we’re all the same”? how would you deny it?
Your hamster is slipshod.
*against white ethnic identity
A link for you. A fashion company owner (I don’t follow this stuff) apparently committed a major gaff by telling the truth.
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/10/adele_too_fat_for_fashion_designer/
Religion begat prosperity, and the daughter devoured the mother — Cotton Mather, 1702
The conservative survivalist wet dream is that it suddenly all comes crashing down and the curtains are pulled back, placing everyone at the whims of their immediate environment and cutting off the cognitive depedence on things like internet and intellectual escape. As if their investment in thinking could help them bypass the ugly truth: the thug doer will survive.
As a person who lived in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, natural disaster brings out a kind of this awakening. Its both ugly (looting) and beautiful- society literally lost everything from electricity on up. You spend your time at the mercy of the environment: you have to go outside to stay cool, talk to everyone to stay informed, pitch in and clean up, etc. But people cannot aspire to that. As a race of homosapiens we have to always aspire forward, as pretty much every society does. Bigger, stronger, smarter, wiser, whatever. The irony is that no matter the aspiration, we still die.
Let me reiterate the core of natural selection: the survival of the fittest does not mean the strongest or the smartest, rather the most adaptable to change. That is a truly scary thougt, and you need to closely look and align yourself with these kinds of people.
Those hurricanes seem to bring out the best and worst in people. We have the castle doctrine in my state and the police give permission to shoot to kill to defend your family or property when something like that happens.
Precocious insight with masterclass prose. I can do naught but add my vote of confidence to your prognosis of western decline. Human nature is a beast that cannot be caged without consequence; yet, if left unshackled will result in war, famine, pestilence and death.
To the young reader who believes these are just ramblings of “the old generation”…I weep at your naivete. Civilization’s most vital purpose is the suppression of the dark triad traits within males. We are all descendants of vile men, who lived only to rape, murder and pillage until their untimely deaths. Take away the strict suppression mechanism of civilization, and you are left with a world that makes nightmares a pleasant escape from reality.
Why do you think members of the western elite are so shocked when they visit the least developed countries in Sub-Saharan Africa or South America? Their fragile, domesticated souls feel the deepest of fears: that of a world in which they are naught but lambs to the slaughter for the dark triad cadre.
Civilization softens men into boys, and boys into young girls. The world outside of the walled garden of the west is one that few can fathom, and fewer still can survive. Be mindful of your wishes young one…
“Precocious insight with masterclass prose.”
precocious does not mean what you think it means. and masterclass is a noun w a very specific meaning. your posts are a very effective rebuttal of CHs recent “Overconfidence” article.
Ignore this loser, DT, and please carry on.
So the task becomes, given that a crash will come, to invent
a Hari Sheldonite rapid transition from chaos to a new order.
Starship Trooper style? No representation without taxation-style?
Maoist revolution-style (including the murder around 10-29%
percent of the population)? Other, specify. And most
importantly, sketch out a way from here through chaos to there.
Thor
Why do you think members of the western elite are so shocked when they visit the least developed countries in Sub-Saharan Africa or South America? Their fragile, domesticated souls feel the deepest of fears: that of a world in which they are naught but lambs to the slaughter for the dark triad cadre.
You mean darkies.
By the way, Europeans and Sub-Saharans are self-contained tangents of Homo sap evolution, not points arranged on the same line of development.
The Bushmen don’t fry their enemies’ ears for a snack nor rape infants to counteract “AIDS”. Nor the Hamites. Nor the Arabs.
Time to hit the books again.
I doubt civilization will collapse, it just won’t be all that enobeling for most people. We already have a guide for this: Brave New World. People engage in hedonism for hedonisms sake. There is nothing else to life. The genetically gifted get the best of it with gradually lowering levels of priviledge down the ladder. Industrialization is a game changer, it means you can provide desired material goods without too much virtue.
When I was young, I stuggled with the idea of whether Brave New World was a dystopia. After all, people got exactely what they wanted. Nobody goes without what they need. It was a very appealing world to one that grew up with unfulfilled basic wants.
When you meet Mustapha Mond at the end, he explains in a clear logical manner why the world is as it is, and how he feels its the best possible world they can come up with. Its flaws are either logistically intractible (societies must have stratification to have order, so people can’t all be alphas) or isolated (a few diamonds in the rough want to self actualize). And for the isolated misfits they have an option of going to isolated islands where they can do the things they want to do without interferance.
The scariest thing about our situation now is there is no world controller. There is nobody in charge that knows what they are doing and has a logical plan. And there are no norms to guide people (in the Brave New World, at least everyone knows what the norms are, how they are supposed to act, and where their place in life is). In a way, Brave New World was the ultimate act of noblesse oblige. The very top alphas sacrificed self actualization in exchange for providing the lower classes with an ordered society. As Mustapha Mond put it, “working for other people’s happiness is exhausting”.
——-
Community, Identity, Stability
And that … is the secret of happiness and virtue—liking what you’ve got to do. All conditioning aims at that: making people like their inescapable social destiny. — Director of Hatcheries
The greater a man’s talents, the greater his power to lead astray. It is better that one should suffer than that many should be corrupted. Consider the matter dispassionately, Mr. Foster, and you will see that no offence is so heinous as unorthodoxy of behavior. Murder kills only the individual-and, after all, what is an individual? — Director of Hatcheries
The world’s stable now. People are happy; they get what they want, and they never want what they can’t get… And if anything should go wrong, there’s soma. — Mustapha Mond
You’ve got to choose between happiness and what people used to call high art. — Mustapha Mond
Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the over-compensations for misery. And, of course, stability isn’t nearly so spectacular as instability. And being contented has none of the glamour of a good fight against misfortune, none of the picturesqueness of a struggle with temptation, or a fatal overthrow by passion or doubt. Happiness is never grand.
— Mustapha Mond
..civilization has absolutely no need of nobility or heroism. These things are symptoms of political inefficiency. In a properly organized society like ours, nobody has any opportunities for being noble or heroic. Conditions have got to be thoroughly unstable before the occasion can arise. Where there are wars, where there are divided allegiances, where there are temptations to be resisted, objects of love to be fought for or defended—there, obviously, nobility and heroism have some sense. But there aren’t any wars nowadays. The greatest care is taken to prevent you from loving any one too much. There’s no such thing as a divided allegiance; you’re so conditioned that you can’t help doing what you ought to do. And what you ought to do is on the whole so pleasant, so many of the natural impulses are allowed free play, that there really aren’t any temptations to resist.”
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
“It was a masterly piece of work. But once you began admitting explanations in terms of purpose— well, you didn’t know what the result might be. It was the sort of idea that might easily decondition the more unsettled minds among the higher castes—make them lose their faith in happiness as the Sovereign Good and take to believing, instead, that the goal was somewhere beyond, somewhere outside the present human sphere; that the purpose of life was not the maintenance of well-being, but some intensification and refining of consciousness, some enlargement of knowledge. Which was, the Controller reflected, quite possibly true. But not, in the present circumstance, admissible.”
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
Oh, my.
“Industrialization is a game changer, it means you can provide desired material goods without too much virtue.”
Au contraire. It requires much virtue to conceive, build and maintain
a factory, let alone a whole civilization.
“The scariest thing about our situation now is there is no world controller.”
Maybe. But the presence of one would be lots scarier. Imagine some
Mao-clone having the ruthlessness to get there.
Because no one has cunning like that.
(Maostein?)
Ultimately whether it was Tytler or Prentis who said it doesn’t matter; the essence of the commentary rings true:
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”
Enjoy every day as though it were your last, for one day it will be.
Dear sirs, I have, through my business a large number of the Australian dole payment forms from a large number of people.
I can point out a handful of WTF social disasters from my clients.
Heres a couple.
Single mum 5 kids, $1,700 a fortnight in payments.
Single bloke no kids $450 (if hes lucky) a fortnight in payments.
Disability pensions to 18 year olds (who are in good shape I might add) of around $650 a fortnight.
A new trend is to split the kids, claim you have one of the kids each, then you both get the single parents pension, thats worth about $400 more than one person having both kids. (Youngest bloke i have doing that, 17)
Warrens of houses where there is a family in each room, not because they cant afford one of their own, or one less crowded, but because it maximises the spending money they have.
Im seeing all the downsides you chaps talk about writ large in the Australian underclass. We are fools. Future generations (Chinese?) will look back on us and conclude it was some strange form of mass suicide.
Go outside. Look around. Everything you see was built by men. And we built a good deal of it for the benefit of women. Now we have a world in which all that women need or want that used to come from their men is provided for them by society or the State. Result: women don’t need us any more.
Oops.
They need us. Their whole social structure is based on the labor of men silently forgotten about. They live off of the sweat of working class men. If those same men went on strike, who would deliver their lattes and eye liner to Macy’s? Who would fix their cars when its makes a funny noise, etc. Men need to realize they still have the true advantage and squeeze the elites accordingly.
We do need you! We are spiritually incomplete without you! (its just that most women aren’t permitted by other women to say this anymore
)
You have no spirit.
You are materially lost without men.
Just like every “empowered” dependent caste. Bunch of good-for-nothing wog eaters.
Lattes and eyeliner.
calm down. women work much more than men do.
[heartiste: unbiased cite?]
lol. i don’t have it.
“It” being a clue.
but it’s been my observation in my family, school, at work. idk, maybe there are many lazy man around me but i believe it can be the other way around too. here where i live women generally have quite demanding careers and they also do the housework and take care for the children. which is very unfair.
i just commented on tyrone’s post because he seems to think that men work more than women, which is not true in most cases. (but maybe he’s surrounded by lazy women who just watch themselves in the mirror all day?)
What you miss is that “women work more” = “spend more time at menial and/or meaningless tasks”… and your ilk doesn’t want to admit that the woman’s work is not of equal value to the man’s… quick example, a woman may clean the house for three hours… but it’s work that pretty much anyone can do, for minimum wage. A man will change the oil in a car and take about twenty minutes… but he’s actually “done more” than the woman who worked for three hours, because it’s more specialized work, requires tools, know-how, willingness to get dirty under less-than-homelike conditions, etc., etc.
Also, of the house isn’t spit-spot clean, nobody dies or a piece of machinery worth $20K doesn’t get ruined… but if a guy screws up with too little oil, the wrong filter, or forgets to tighten the bolt plug, well…
Just a small example of the difference between the work men and women do… and yes, I’m sure women can change the oil in their cars, and there are some house husbands out there. :roll eyes:
Anyway, if you want to claim that women actually “work much more than men”, consider the type of work, and what that work is truly worth in our system of things.
Yup. Women think pushing a rag over clean furniture in an OCD ritual of “cleaning” a largely sanitized home is the same as a man spending the same time refurbishing the basement. A guy prioritizes important items, focuses on them, and tends to ignore what doesn’t matter. Women prioritize mundane, relatively easy tasks, thinking they are essential. Social interaction and such becomes key to the “work”, whereas for men such frivolities impede productivity. Hence drawing well water becomes a three hour job, 10 minutes of water-gathering, and 2 hours 50 minutes of gossip and fuss with other women at the well. By contrast, men will build a barn in a day, without use of modern tools, and still have time to have dinner with everyone in the evening. The amount of chit chat on such a job site is about nil, except for discussion of the next stage in the project.
Being the true cause of the income gap, of course, and the rationale for the “patriarchy” myth.
Men without women become vicious, cowardly hyenas. Women without men become vulgar, fat sows.
Rent this movie: Without Men, starring Eva Longoria. Quite funny little fluff
It’s actually not the hindbrain, but mainly the Hipthalamus (which is in the forebrain) and the PAG, which is a part of the midbrain.
well, ch, there was a time in this country when we were all in this together, but our betters have decided it just won’t do. oh yeah, the underlying genetic differences explain all now. the fact that union wages have been undermined explain nothing; that the dignity of the working class has been crushed isn’t a factor. it’s all their fault; it’s a moral crisis.
i’ve no patience with the current murray-style moral piling on. there are vast differences in the status quo now than what was taken for granted not that long ago. i remember when this was a decent country.
as far as what’ll get us first: peak oil; global warming; or moral collapse, my bet is not on the latter. the young’uns are the corrective. the kids are alright. not so our bankster overlords.
Carolyn, it may come as a surprise, but Charles Murray agrees with you. He laments it in his own sterile way as much as you do, if not more. He is defining the problem accurately so that it can be addressed and solved, not made worse by a wrong headed politically devised solution.
he laments it, true, but doesn’t prescribe any eal solutions. oh wait, a ‘second great awakening’. i’ve only read reviews of this book but judging from his other books that i have read, his MO is to blame the victim.
i refer you to david frum’s 5 part scathing review:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/06/charles-murray-book-review.html
read the whole thing. frum’s a terrific writer.
The union wages have dropped – some. But more to the point,
outside of government employment, there are just a lot fewer
of those high paying union jobs, mainly for the reason that
companies can no longer afford them. The people
as tax payers have much less say then the same people
as voluntary buyers of goods. In fact often no say, unless
they emigrate, and sometimes not even then.
Without inserting any preference, it is fairly obvious that
the USD 70/h (including benefits) for unskilled labor in
places such as GM was a historical anomaly. That they
are disappearing should surprise nobody.
“taken for granted not that long ago”.
Precisely. But this is phenomenon of the post WWI and
especially post WWII world. You have great flexibility
in establishing what’s “normal” if you get to select
the baseline point in time. LIberals like 1960.
Substitute 1900 as “normal” and recalculate.
Or some other time, you pick!
Thor
“The Lords of Lies”
You mean the LOLz?
Holy sheet. It all makes sense now.
The end might take longer than many of us are assuming. The Roman Empire decayed slowly for centuries before it finally collapsed.
Inertia is always a dampening factor… the ol’ “not with a bang, but a whimper” observation.
Technology – interconnectedness faster today. Global porn/feminism PC = black plague of 21st C (quick)
i.e. not procreating mass pop. decline of non-theists (who have evol. defence against modernity and demographic extinction fornication,contraception,abortion)
“the meek shall inherit the earth”
Caballero and Heartiste get to the heart of the problem: it used to be that certain behaviors were likely to result in your death and/or the death of your offspring, whether from starvation or getting more powerful people pissed off at you.
Modern civilization shields (for a time) contra-survival behavior from immediate consequence. The effect is similar to the practice of putting out forest fires until the volume of deadwood and brush finally result in fires that are too big to be put out.
yeah right
NONE of this bullshit would exist without a government determined to shield everyone from the consequences of their bad choice and devoted to inexplicably promoting the interests of the lowest forms of black people at all costs
people are able to indulge in their worst vices in our society due to the very very not laissez faire lack of consequences brought about by socialism. when libertarians talk about freedom they mean freedom without government shielding you from consequences via welfare, TANF, planned parenthood, roe v wade on a national level, draconian chid support orders made in semi unconstitutional family courts of equity, socialized medicine, social security, medicare, and on and on and on
laissez faire human behavior ends really quick when your choices are made in a world of unameliorated consequences. go try being a hypergamous slut in a world when employers are free to discriminate against women for any reason they please–and to fire you for getting pregnant, or hell just because you don’t look so pretty anymore, or because a MAN shows up who needs a job. try being a single mom with no child support or food stamps or public school day care centers to dump your kids on all day. try being a low rent schvug with no affirmative action, benefits, public schools, head start, WIC or big city bureaucracy to give you a make work job, no EEOC, no section 8 housing, and where people are allowed to rent to whomever they wish
try creating generations of childless cat ladies without social security and medicare to pay for them instead of their kids and grandkids
In my view, there would be very little wrong with America today had you not started to import German idealist and marxist philosophy in first half of the 19th century.
America was built on reason, individualism, and freedom. German philosophy, since Kant, preaches unreason, self sacrifice, and collectivism.
You can’t keep a civilization with that kind of philosophy.
I also don’t think for a moment that it was the superior innate intelligence of the individuals who sailed to America after Columbus who created this brilliant civilization. Had they sailed to South America they would have been as successful as the people who went there.
No, the reason for America’s greatness is freedom – and deeper: the philosophy of freedom, ie, the Enlightenment.
If you get a new Enlightenment, you’ll keep your civilization.
The vast majority of North American immigrants who built this country were of the English and German stamp… and if/when they mixed, it was still White with White.
What happened in South America, with Spanish/Portuguese masters bringing over an assload more of Negro slaves (I’ve heard numbers along the lines of 15 million versus the 2 million of NA), and then everyone mixing with the pöbelvolk already there, well…
THERE’S your answer as to the different outcome results of the New World, north vs. south.
Fascism is the answer, brah.
haha i was thinking the same thing. cant wait to read king a’s response. dude needs his own blog. king a, ch, and rollo form the trifecta of penetrative writing and thinking around these parts.
Agreed. King A, get on it.
I am sympathetic, but don’t overstate your case. Research on LH strategy and IQ has yielded null results.
Just finished reading the section on Sophocles–>Aeschylus–>Euripides in “The Birth of Tragedy.” It essentially echoes your point here (and I know it’s not meant to be an original point — Spengler saw it; the ancient Hindus saw it; etc — but one that apparently needs to be renewed and repeated for each generation, or each retard). The great god-like orgy of tragedy that emerged into Sophocles later became the more character-centric tragedy of Aeschylus, which became the still-tragic but now slightly ironic and much dryer and almost neurotic plays of Euripides. After Euripides: light, witty comedies-of-manner and wordplay. After that… the Romans walked all over the once mighty Greeks.
Nowadays Euripides is much more readable (to most moderns) than Sophocles. In the very moment of their flourishing greatness, the Greeks were planting the seeds of their own hypertrophied intellectuality… their downfall at the hands of the militaristic Romans. The Greeks were better off with Sophocles, as “primitive” as he was. And yet, as you point out, each stage contains the seed of the next one.
The title of this one really set me off as I’d been thinking along these lines for a while now. So I’m going to flog my own blog where I expand upon my earlier comment. Read this and let me know what you think. And if the hyperlink doesn’t work, damn you in advance, WordPress.
I was watching Lou Dobbs the other night and the topic was young unemployment especially in regards to males. He had two “psychologist” on there talking about the ramifications of the “man boy” syndrome and the birth rate and one of them had the gall to say it’ll leave a smaller but smarter population down the road. Oh boy are they in for a rude awakening.
Until the lopsided SMP is discussed and the outright lies on behalf of women are brought out into the open, this nation will literally go down like the Jews who thought they were just going into the showers for a quick wash. The ignorance and wrongful blame men get is a tragedy of the utmost obscenity while women are still portrayed as innocent victims. Only this time it’s lazy men instead of abusive ones.
It’s the no fault divorce that is much of the problem. Women can leave for no reason and take much of the man’s wealth and future earnings with them.
Excellent article!
Well, it has been obvious to me for decades that prosperity destroys everything it touches. How else could it be? Without a struggle , there is no need to devise constructive adaptations. Look at the decay of dynasties. The Ottoman’s lasted the longest because of their harem system and winner takes all, but, once they stopped that system, they decayed, too.
If you are poor, struggle mightily to get a bigger piece of the action. Just be aware that the most important inheritance you can give to your children has very little to do with money.
It is an interesting but not much talked about side note of history that indigenous people like the Maori and Australian Aboriginals were out bred by settlers due to the rampant STDs prevalent in the promiscuous tribal cultures.
Given the West’s promiscuity it is only a matter of time a monogamous culture asserts itself over the prevailing one by out breeding them (Mexicans in the US and Arabs in Europe).
STDs are less of a threat than they used to be, even with AIDS.
AIDS epidemics don’t exist unless you have either of
o A subpopulation of gays
o A subpopulation of IV drug users
o A subpopulation or a whole population of people
with pre-existing other problems, e.g. syphilis,
chanchroid, FMG etc that cause open sores
he reason is female-to-male contagion is, even given
widespread promiscuity, not frequent enough to sustain
an epidemic. (Note: This is statistical, NOT
an individual warranty.)
The Aboriginal were outbred because farmers always
outbreed hunters and gatherers. Examples:
o Tropical Africa: hunters and gathers outbred by the Bantu farmers
or their West African equivalents. (Note: the tropical crops
they knew how to grow precluded their settling South Africa.)
o North America: Indians outbred. Yes, there were some horror
stories, but in the end, population wise, the result was inevitable.
o The NZ case is a little more complicated, Maoris are about
15% of the population, but they were already farmers, albeit
at the neolitic stage when Europeans arrived.
(NZ lacks copper ore, the necessary
training wheels to metallurgy).
o South Africa: The Dutch outbred the San/Hottentots/Bushmen.
But, back to the script, STDs will not cause whites to be
outbred. But coexisting with cultures where the women start
making babies by 18 or earlier and making 10 might cause the
whites to be outbred – quickly.
Thor
Maybe I’m too obtuse to understand the article.
He’s saying that prosperity will destroy itself, but he is not saying (or I am missing it) how or why.
And yet never never never will anyone who predicts apocalypse describe a vision for what this will look like.
Only the very vaguest handwavings.
Whites are not going to start acting like blacks. Whites will continue to split off into college educated and higher IQ and longer time orientation camps against the trailer trash whites. The higher IQ whites may experience demographic decline, and will continue to experience relative demographic decline.
But they will also continue to congregate in all white enclaves such as Boulder, Colorado, and can live their entire lives never encountering any of the apocalypse so feared.
Yes. Montana and Idaho real estate are a buy due to white flight on a national level.
The Northwest Imperative may be one of the safety valves for Whites… if we have the balls to see it through when the North American Balkan States reach their tippling point.
…if you abolish federal taxes….
Thor
The problem is that women have been sold a pack of lies — that freedom comes without cost. The immediate cost to women is … choosing badly. Giselle Bundchen might end up with Tom Brady. But Bridget Monaghan did not. Pursuit of Alphas might work out for a few Supermodels, for the rest of woman-kind, the best bet is choosing the “best” qualities in the most reliable guy they can get.
The past prosperity is an illusion: built entirely on US dominance, cheap oil, and “a lot of ruin in a nation.” None of which last forever. If women know this, and understand, the easy life today could be gone tomorrrow, that Beta provider looks pretty good. But women have to know the score (this site is invaluable for showing the score). Eventually people realize a Ponzi scheme, they know it can’t pay out. Sexual freedom is just like that. The only way to win is not to play.
Carolyn writes: “”my point is that there must be plenty of young women out there with a similar mindset. did all girls suddenly become stupid?””
The sense of entitlement women have now developed make the shift from AFC to alpha more challenging.
It’s been repeated many times here that when guys view sex as some kind of reward, it puts them in the position of the follower rather than the leader.
Leading is hard, there is always resistance in business, in life and in relationships.
The minute there’s self-doubt your frame is compromised and you become needy and looking for affirmation.
Smart girls go for guys who accommodate them, who worship them?
I think anybody who enjoys this blog should be an active George Carlin studier. Particularly his later years/standups. He said many times that the system in America threw us overboard thirty years ago, and that we are essentially circling the drain.
I can’t help but agree. My belief is that either there will be widespread revolt in response to increasingly shittier means of living and/or you’ll see a whole lot of americans emigrating to foreign up and coming cities.
Even when i was young, the passiveness of the average person in the face of unfairness, tyranny (however subtle) perplexed the shit outta me. The vast majority (middle class) are so asleep at the wheel and uninformed about how shafted we are all getting.
My personal philosophy is that you have to be aggressive, bold and capital T.A.K.E what you need in life…because our declining culture, and the increasingly dire times we’re experiencing are mimicking more and more the “everyone for himself” survival mentality of the wild.
This blog, and many other sources for me have helped to eradicate the part of myself that is reflexively concerned with the selfish whims of the outside world. As you age, and especially as a male, you come to slowly and painfully learn that no-one is watching your back, and even your family isn’t at all times.
It seems a bit heavy after writing it, but i’m a firm believer in working with reality and not deluding myself, only to be once again ass rammed by the natural state of things, and wishing i had kept my own best interest in mind.
interesting hearing her describe the thrill. Even 50 years later she’s still stuck in that moment….Wonder how her husbands feel hearing this story being told over and over…
and notice what a mangina the interviewer is acting like he’d have had no sexual interest in her when she was an intern. You can see this wimp’s female colleague in the red dress squirming with delight over the long dead alpha while probably feeling nothing for her white knighting colleague.
Did you hear what the wrinkled whore said towards the end?
Something like “in hindsight”, it was an unbalanced and exploitative relationship because he was much older (you know, the kind of relationships that should be banned for the sake of the pure innocent 19 year old female angels), but “at the time”, she couldn’t stop the juices from flowing inside her vagina.
It’s the typical talk of feminist shrikes who blabber about the unappropriateness of older men/younger females relationships, without having the beginning of a clue about the sexual market dynamics.
Translation: When I was hot and young, I wanted a man like him to respond to my hot youngness. Now, I want men to respond to me still, even though I lack those qualities.
She no longer wants sex from men, though, she just wants provision of resources to make her comfortable and the wise crone of the tribe, able to lord over younger women and men.
Unfortunately with the system of high investment reproduction you are not of reproducing age until age 28-31 and having more than 3 children is uncommon. The people who treat child-bearing very lightly (because ‘ole Uncle Sam will pick up the tab) are ready to pump out kids with the same socialist compass at age 16 and will have babies until they drop a uterus.
Idiocracy could very well be a foretelling movie.
Also, Obama has awakened a great number of budding conservatives who until his absolute failure in the seat of power believed every problem with the economy came from Bush because the economy boomed under Clinton, which coincidentally was an idea parroted by every major news station. The fact is that liberalism is a luxury and can only exist as a parasite. That parasite eventually sucks up all of the nutrients and the host has a choice to die a slow death by starvation or shrug off the parasites and move to Atlantis.
I agree that responsibility is a bygone term. The moral decay in this country is accelerating rapidly to try and catch up to Europe’s. Perhaps it will slow down when the guillotine of economics falls onto the over-leveraged neck of the Eurozone but I doubt it.
The two main problems western society faces today are liberal democracy leading to an unsustainable socialism and unchecked individualism leading to complete moral decay. Politicians get elected on lowering taxes and increasing spending, two contradictory aims that inevitably lead to a bankrupt country. And without a widespread moral code such as organized religion to keep pervasive hedonism in check, chaos ensues.
As America becomes more secular and the economy continues its decline, I see us first becoming a third world country, and then our democratic system collapsing. But maybe I’m just a clueless reactionary.
This is one of the rare times when I’m glad to be a Fascist.
The Western world appears to be in decline, but it is merely a by-product of saturation of development potential, coupled with major gains made by former serf colonies on their own path to prosperity.
There is no doubt that we will see the relative status of major Western powers, including our very own, diminish with time. As it always goes in nature, adaptability will be the key to survival. It would be foolish to believe that the US is going to collapse entirely into some form of post-apocalyptic dystopia – that’s just wishful thinking courtesy of the losers of this world. The strong and the mighty will continue to pull the strings and the puppets will have no choice but to play along.
The US will not fall apart because its society is extremely well trained in obeisance. American people are the poster children for structured, militarist observance of rules and trends. Regardless of how lopsided the status of living becomes and the divergence between the haves and have-nots continues to increase, the vast majority will continue to believe in their own American dream, which is of course virtually identical to that of their neighbor. It is this dissonance of perceived individuality and actual herd behavior that makes this country strong. For better or worse.
We are also entering an age of the female. For those who haven’t noticed, the inertia of cultural trends will continue to diminish men’s rights and elevate women into positions of authority, often against better judgement. I don’t think there’s an effective remedy for that cultural shift unless it could be shown conclusively how destructive such a trend would be.
In simpler terms: what’s good for the individual man or woman is not necessarily, or very often, good for a prosperous society. This has been a core concept here at the Chateau since its inception.
I like to use cows as an example. Cows are one of the most populace species on the face of the earth, and they exist on every habitable continent. Their partnership with man has allowed cows to conquer the earth. The only problem being, of course, that we eat them. Which isn’t really much of a problem to mother nature, but is certainly a problem for each and every cow. What is good for the cow as a species is not good for an individual cow.
FYI… critical article on the Manosphere by a woman…
“Complementarity, Not Competition,” by Elizabeth Duffy, Patheos, 2 Feb 2012
http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Complementarity-Not-Competition-Elizabeth-Duffy-02-02-2012?offset=0&max=1
Not especially fond of the “sexual marketplace” today either, but feels the Manosphere is encouraging not constructive traditional masculinity, but the misogynistic “douchebag” variety the SMP favors instead, in response.
A conservative libertarian has a lot to grapple with here: freedom and prosperity are the real “culprits” here, and their interaction with natural genetic variation.
Actually it’s not much to grapple with at all. You must realize that culture always leads legislation. Laws generally are only for deviants, since most laws fall easily within cultural norms. Society collapses not because gay marriage becomes the law of the land. Gay marriage becomes law of the land because of societal collapse. Legislative change is the last, and most meaningless bastion to fall. The culture war is fought in the schools, churches, theaters and on the televisions of the nation. Government isn’t involved, it’s more like the trophy that is presented after the contest.
Excellent observation.
As far as the looking apocalypse… there is a minor problem on the way to doom…. which is the santorum/romney/huntsman phenomenon.. rich conservative men have basketball teams of kids.
Libtards have few (unless paid by subsidy). In the muslim world this is a destructive force in places like Turkey and Egypt where moderates failed to breed and lost the demographic race with the radical muslims bringing back beheading. Here in the states, the hordes of religious breeding leads to things like christmas carols, volunteerism, conspicuous drops in teen sex/drug use.
Aside from the cherished minority welfare subsidy, the liberal age was a brief self-destructive moment in the USA. SWPL will not exist in large numbers within a few decades because they will be bred out of existence. Liberal white America is finished. The future is a country like the Santorums and the Romeys who bred young and bred fast. If the welfare subsidy for minority brood mares can be cut and immigration of violents ignorants slashed, the future for the USA looks strong.
The new deal generation looks like history and the braindead baby boomer demographic will die away. Meaning that there is hope.
Bad example with the next generation of Santorums: his own nephew rejects his world view and supports Ron Paul.
[heartiste: in extended families there will always be one or two relatives who believe a different narrative than the patriarch’s. this isn’t evidence for or against the patriarch’s beliefs. it’s merely evidence that genetic hereditarianism is not absolute.]
Moreover, if genetics has a say, then Karen Santorum will give her daughters the genes that saw Karen riding up and down on an alpha abortion doctor until he dumped her after she hit the wall at age 30. Karen then had babies with the beta Rick who was willing (read: had no other choice but) to take a woman who’d been discarded by an alpha and build a family with her. Genetically speaking, the Santorum kids would be 50:50 pro-alpha and pro-beta.
If nurture has most of the say, Santorum’s daughters will grow up knowing their mother enjoyed a man who was the opposite of their father until she was 30. They might quietly plan on copying their mom’s life trajectory.
They will also remember their father being defeated, including having won the straw polls in Minnesota and Colorado but the delegates that were chosen weren’t planning to honor the stupid wishes of clueless old people who don’t read the Internet (where Santorum’s support comes from).
In my opinion, this is quite possibly the most important eye popping article you have ever written. Let me say that I read much of your material. Let me also say that I agree with you on pretty much everything you touch on. Western society is dying. There can be no doubt about that. That fact is undebateable. I think western civilization will be missed when it finally unravels.
Like you, I always had a pretty good understanding of women. I understood from a early age what it is the typical female is looking for. What she wants, and what she desires. As a result, I was always very successful with the ladies. That being said, the “player/club whore” lifestyle runs counter clockwise to a advanced civilization.
I do not see western civilization restoring itself. I think history is littered with past civilizations that have went through the same stages that western civilization is currently going through. On a sidenote, I think those that are most responsible for cheering on the destruction of western civilization will ultimately be the ones that may miss western civilization the most.
You know, I am a convert to Islam. My wife is Middle Eastern and I converted more as a gesture of good faith than any real epiphany. I was never really a very good Christian (other than culturally) and to be honest I am not a very good Muslim. Church/Mosque have never appealed to me. They still don’t. However, not being closely attached to either faith has allowed me to view both religions/cultures through unbiased eyes. (by the way, the Christianity of a hundred and fifty years ago resembled Islam more than it does the current facade of Christianity)
I think people take western civilization for granted. I think white western females take western civilization for granted big time. They denounce the very culture that permits them to behave in ways that would render them untouchable in MOST other wordly cultures. Much of their conduct would be reigned in very quickly under most other worldly cultures. I know beyond a doubt that under all but the most Liberal of Islamic law such behavior would be halted instantly. Feminism would end within hours.
I am by no means espousing such a thing. In fact I say that only to illustrate how silly a white suburban 19 year old know nothing female who is majoring in women’s studies sounds to me when she starts railing against female oppression under western law. Little does she know, or understand that a group of women have never experienced the level of freedom or independence that her and her cohorts experience today.
What is the answer?? There is none. Western society has brought material and scientific advancement to man unlike any and all cultures before it. Even Muslims know this. Muslims admire western civilization. Many of the the most educated among the Muslims want to mimic it. Western culture has produced art, literature, architecture, music, medicine, and technological know how that is unrivaled. Western culture has been so successful that is has allowed for those who are unable to survive on their own merit to multiply and become numerous. So numerous in fact that they threaten the most productive. However the curtain is coming down. Within 100 years, most western nations will be shadows of what they once were.
I know it was a bit of a rant. However I rarely post. I do read your site regularly though. I find the nature of human relations very intriguing. And you my friend have a excellent understanding in such matters.
I may start asking women who rant about male oppression to take a vegan approach: don’t permit yourself to enjoy any of the benefits of the patriarchal culture. Maintain your purity. Then start the discussion of what she must give up. Answer? Everything.
Your pretty close to the actual choice humanity has to make. It has everything to do with this stuff.
If we as an entire culture choose hedonism and expense dependence it’s going to be more annoying for me to find a way off this rock to fuck space chicks, get space aids and die while banging a woman from each species to properly distribute my seed amongst the sentient!
You fuckwits are ruining my Christmas!
The short short version of the article is this:
As a society becomes free and open and women become prosperous, females are free to follow their own hypergamous natures.
I’ve been saying this for a while actually, that women these days are free to chase the alpha cock carousel, unrestrained by society’s previous restrictions on female sexuality. Slut shaming still exists, but only so much by women as a means of maintaining the value of their sexuality. Cue the lamentations of young women on college campuses who can’t get male investment (in the form of relationships or resources) because of all the other low-hanging fruit men would rather choose than the women that would hold back sex for commitment.
As this NYT article from a few years mentioned, women in today’s society all would prefer to get an alpha male, and EVEN WHEN THERE ARE MORE WOMEN THAN MEN (such as on campus) women still mainly compete for only the best 20% of men.
http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/08/colleges-where-men-are-in-supply
“Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent,” she said.
Beta males are relatively left out of the picture, both on campus and in society as a whole, that is until the women age and can’t get male attention like they once did in their prime. The exception to this rule of thumb is the women who couldn’t get an alpha in the first place for one reason or another.
Hah! Read the paragraph that is a quote.
I was not surprised that a female no-nothing
freshman would spout this. But I must
admit, the Fishwrap Times shrank even lower
in my opinion for publishing such pap, and the
surrounding text by the interviewer showed
no misgivings. It was on CH’s blog at the time.
OF COURSE you can create a tremendous
deficit of men (or, for that matter, women)
by arbitrarily excluding all but the most
in-demand minority of men (or women).
A young man at this college, despite being
slightly rarer then the women, could have
said something like “Yes women are 57 percent,
but only about 10 percent are hot enough to
bother with, so there are 43 men to
10 women” And even Fishwrap would have
understood that this kind of reasoning is garbage.
Thor
Mind you, colleges have already selected out the bottom 80% of IQ in the selection process, and these men are in the prime of life.
For women to be sniffing that large chunks of the population are unsuitable say so much about human sexuality. I said before in reference to that article that this illustrates the groupie-rock bank mating preferences of women. EVERY woman wants the lead singer of the band. Many of those women will grudgingly accept the drummer as a substitute good. But most will sneer at a nameless nobody in the crowd, because he is unworthy of her. Her imagined nearness to and ability to land the lead singer makes her unwilling to consider men closer to the imagined average.
When she does accept that average man, however, she will still seek the attention of the band members, and make herself available to them. These college women are doing the same thing, only on a college campus.
Hardly the top 80%, since about half of the
age group go to college. More so among women.
Thor
Follow-up to my previous comment with the full article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/fashion/07campus.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1328960326-VQnaX2FKHK4cj9USYm+4Ag
Needless to say, this puts guys in a position to play the field, and tends to mean that even the ones willing to make a commitment come with storied romantic histories. Rachel Sasser, a senior history major at the table, said that before she and her boyfriend started dating, he had “hooked up with a least five of my friends in my sorority — that I know of.”
This pretty much says it all in terms of women having to ante up if they want to play the alpha cock carousel game. However, what this doesn’t address is how the 80% of men on campus (and in society) are relatively being left out in the cold. IMO if it wasn’t for the emergence of this stark reality then Game wouldn’t have emerged in the first place–there wouldn’t be any need for it under the old rules of society that reigned in female sexuality and spread things around more evenly. (pun intended)
So what have we got today? About 20% of men scooping up the lion’s share of free sex with who knows what percentage of women. If I had to guess, it’s probably around 60-70%, based on a lifetime of observations. Of the remaining women, the reason they’re not getting their share of the alphas is because they’re not good enough for them, have high morals, or are no longer in the dating market for one reason or another.
The conservative in me thinks this Hooking Up Smart article has a decent take on all this:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2010/02/08/hookinguprealities/i-hate-math-especially-on-college-campuses/
60 years?
Women got the vote over a century ago. JS Mill started the feminist movement long before that, while worshipping his ice princess wife.
Who voted to bring Hitler to power? Women loved Hitler, much more than men did.
Not quite. In the US, nationwide women’s suffrage came in 1920.
In Britain, limited rights in 1818, rights same as men 1928.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_United_Kingdom
France: 1944. For a quick list do e.g.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_vote_des_femmes
Thor
Yes, Thor, but the state voting was where the action was, with all the new laws regulating male behavior more than a century ago.
The national suffrage thing was just an afterthought after the real damage had been done.
There is a flaw in the reasoning. Prosperity and freedom are bandied around without a clear understanding of the mechanism that has produced them.
It is the welfare state, and government action, that has allowed women ‘prosperity’ and ‘freedom’.
If an unmarried, unemployed woman had a child which was not paid for by the government, and where government bodies did not assign child support payments to the father, what would be the prevalance of alpha thugs actually fathering children?
On top of this, a significant proportion of female employment is provided by government make-work, via the public sector. If this was removed, and companies were not hit with diversity laws that mandated they hire less productive but more ‘protected’ citizens, how many women would be independently prosperous, and when baby rabies inevitably hit, who would they look for in a mate?
In short, prosperity and freedom (for women and some minorities) are paid for by productive elements of society (largely white or asian men) who have their wealth transferred by government to women and protected minorities.
Jason Malloy appears to have bought into the idea that women are actually as productive as men, and therefore earn their prosperity and freedom in modern society, rather than have it given to them by government action.
Malloy is giving us an evo-bio version of Schumpeter. It’s not crazy but let’s hope it’s not inevitable. I suspect competition with China (even peaceful comp) may lead to some reversals after a half century when the US had no truly serious competitors.
Or else, we’re just screwed.
I’d say prosperity kills civilizations because the hottest babes have enough cash for more than subsistence on their own indefinitely and are no longer striving for the prize older builder of civilizations in order to survive and thrive, but instead lazily turning to the biker or surfer dude who didn’t have to build the civilization at all ever in order to get the best sex.
This, in turn, demotivates the builders of civilization who stop building, never start building or leave.
One doesn’t need American style social conservatism to build a civilization and it’s been shown that this ideology only encourages the growth of feminism while one can argue that libertarianism better shines the light of reason on cockroach feminists. Ron Paul, for instance, is almost the only politician who voted against feminist initiatives in the past 20 years while charlatans like Santorum might rail against the sexual revolution but, as a US senator, voted for every last new feminist law presented, not to mention “compassionate conservative” wealth transfers mostly from men to women.
What one needs to build civilizations is to make sure that the builders are rewarded with sex in proportion to the amount they build and this is best done by not unnecessarily transferring wealth from males to females even as student loans, giving 16-25 year old females too much self esteem and entitlement complexes during the critical period when they should be finding a provider who built something.
If small l libertarianism can crush feminism through reason, and I believe it can via the Internet, America would be a lot better off than it has been during the 150 year current but dying phase where social conservatism has only spurred on feminism as a complementary (oligarchical?) faith-based superstitious ideology that can’t survive the age of the Internet.
*One can even say that American feminism and social conservatism are ultimately the two faces of a Janus oligarchy that wants to pretend to its subjects (us) that there is at least a two party system in America when it’s really the same people pretending to argue about abortion.
Sounds suspiciously like an argument for Original Sin. Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made, eh?
“Maxim #1,000: Democracy contains within it the seed of its own destruction.”
Fixed it for you. The ruin of the society is not by hedonism or prosperity or happyness. But because of those consuming more than they produce, and they can vote their parasitic welfare.
+1
I am not so sure the tendencies below worry the respective groups all that much. Whether it SHOULD is another question.
“Libertarians: laissez faire means the cementing of intractable human hereditary differences into antagonistic classes and milieus.”
Many Libertarians accept this, indeed welcome the first part. Galt’s Gulch was hardly inclusive, even in fiction it worked _precisely_ because of a very exclusive immigration policy. The real question is how antagonistic this would be. Remember, most civilizations, including the Western Civilization up to say WWI, had (and has, outside the West) vastly more inequality than what the West has now, or is likely to have in the short or intermediate future. Long term – well, much harder to tell, as always. The current howls about increasing inequality (regardless of how true or relevant it is) perceive the low point of inequality in or around 1960 as the norm. In fact, it may prove to be a fluke. The road to happiness is reduced expectations…
Maybe we are heading to enclaves. Gated communities is the vanguard of this movement. I am for gated communities in principle, but in reality what happens is they create an authoritarian hell of their own, run by people who _literally_ have nothing better to do.
“Conservatives: freedom and prosperity mean a slackening of external behavioral motivators and the erosion of commonality and shared values and the means with which to argue for them.“
Probably applies to the Santorum-style [Santorum is one of several contenders for US President and is totally unprincipled on economics and everything else, except Bible-thumping] conservatives that worry about these things. Some of these people are scary, but fortunately the really hard cases are a small minority. Belief, as driven by CH’s quote above, that privations build character. Well, actually, maybe they do build character in some instances, but the hard cases want to prescribe it as remedy (except to themselves).. No thanks, say I.
But many Conservatives (or at least Republican voters in the US, some Tories in the UK etc) are Libertarian-leaning in personal ideology and can fall into my description of Libertarians above.
“Liberals: nonjudgmental individualism means a collapse of social capital and a surrender of any moral or aesthetic authority.”
Yup. They are nuts, even by their own beliefs they are destructive or self-destructive,
i.e. their policies must in the long run lead to things they (and most people) abhor.
Exception (sortof): The wanna-be-masters of the universe, every pipsqueak college kid who wants to remake the world into Nirvana, implicitly with themselves as the above-it-all Mandarins. Trouble is, if they are successful, much more than 90% will find that there just isn’t that much room at the top, so they will get what they want, except that their own personal place in the system will be near the bottom, not the top.
But the general drift of CH’s writing makes sense. Loosely, without sorting into categories, prosperity makes too many people fat, dumb and happy, and has a tendency to ruin the whole civilization. There are no easy fixes. Personally (I now live near the DC area ) I daily see the DC license plates with the logo “Taxation without representation”.
(Note to readers outside the US: this was one of the slogans, preceded by “No” during the war for American independence, but has been adopted by DC because people living in DC have much reduced voting rights in national elections]. But I have come to the conclusion that in the long run, democracy without limits does not work. The US Founding Fathers were very aware of the pitfalls, and went to great length to limit the powers of the federal government – also a prerequisite to get it adopted by the 13 states. This lasted up to roughly 1900, after which the federal government by various means has arrogated increasing power to itself. ) Well, I cannot see the system working without inserting the coequal requirement, no representation without taxations. Net tax eaters should not be allowed to vote.
More to the point, Western civ is heading to a crisis, maybe a collapse. And if we are REALLY LUCKY, something half-decent will rise from the ashes. If not lucky, we might get some new brand of totalitarianism, or at least a system geared to and run by a very small elite. My solution above would create a society where power is broadly based, but not too broadly. Goldilocks, where are you when we need you.
Thor
HEARTISSTEE!!!
IT’S NOT THE PROSPERTITY DAT LEADS TO DA DELCINE lzozzozl
IT IS DA FIAT PROSPERITY Which leads 2 da postmodernsismm ss and da declineszz lzozlzlzozoz
IT IS THE EXLA?TAIOION OF THE BOTTM LINE DEBT OVER TH EHIGHER IDEALS DAT LEADS 2 DA DECLINE lzozozozoz
but prospeerity itslef does not lead 2 delclein zlzozolz only debt-based prosperpsity exlated oever all entirety lzozl
We better all make ourselves useful to our chinese overlords, eh?
Apparently, in China, the average man does not find freedom to be as important as economic growth, much to the shock of the western left.
I’ll enjoy my freedom of speech and videogames while they last.
There is this thing called ‘culture’… Heartiste, have you heard of it? (have you ever been to a European country? Have you lived in one?)
The characteristic of a civilized society is not technological, industrial or financial prosperity. Your problem is not prosperity. The mark of a civilized society is its CULTURE and the fact is that the US and North America as a whole are a cultural shithole. You can attempt psychological and evolutionary justifications of your situation all you want, but you will never know what I’m talking about in case you’ve spent all your life on this culturally crippled continent. Your society has not developed any sort of culture and thus is not civilized.
Correction: there is culture in the US. This culture is based on instant gratification and other primary human instincts, like greed (for higher profit, bigger, shinier objects), fear (from the bad guys, terrorists, the Russians, whatever), the need for recognition achieved through fame (rather than friendship), etc. The satisfaction of those basic needs has become your culture’s VALUES and (most) Americans know of nothing beyond that — there no place for complicated concepts like MORALS, EMPATHY, SHAME, etc.
Unfortunately, you likely don’t understand what I’m talking about.
I lived in Norway for most my life, now living in Switzerland.
Here, people are kind as hell. I was out the other night at 2 AM, freezing my ass off, looking for a bus home, when this semi-drunk good looking chick approaches me out of the blue. She noticed I was lost and immediately gave me good advice on how to get where I needed to go.
It’s frequently echoed that western women nowadays are selfish and devoid of sympathy, especially for men, but this case, which is not at all isolated, suggests the contrary.
I’ve never been to the US, I wouldn’t know how different things are there though…
The selfishness of Western women might not be any
worse than that of other people, inherently. Most
people will have few scruples as far as grabbing what
they can. And, yes, Western women sure can!
And Western women are soft-hearted
– to stray puppies. But the moment they think of
a man as a potential mate, or even date, the
evopsych programming put on steroids by the
femocracy, comes in full force, Thus, the reaction
to even the most polite expression of sex-based
interest is met with at best cool indifference, at
worst with “Iaahhh, this CREEPY guy is trying
to TALK to me. Make him go away, somebody!”
CA talks about bitch shields, true enough, but
it goes much deeper that that – the reactions
described above are emotionally genuine in most
cases, but occur mainly because of the fem-centered
indoctrination and the (often fulfilled )
expectation to date alphas, and the
(usually unfulfilled) expectation to marry one.
Thor
If he had tried to seek romance, her reaction? “I will *not* settle for less!” Etc.
as you point out, it is when their reproductive capacity is kicked in that you find out women can be harder than Rhodesian mercenaries and more calculating than a Borgia.
Culture is but the framework a society uses to judge people’s worthyness of reproduction. Music,dance,debates and education are but contests to determine as much. From what I’ve gathered of American culture it doesn’t really differ all that much from continental Europe so I don’t really see how Europe is better off. The catholic countries of Europe may still have some remnants of high culture, but the protestant ones are quite clearly in the same place as the USA. Shame,empathy and morals are as much banners to be upheld as they are swords. Do you think that the redistribution found in Europe isn’t based on greed? By what means do you think such things are extorted if not by abusing someones empathy? It is nothing but survival of the pitiful with one trying to outdo the other for the sake of material gain and fame. It has gotten to the point where whenever I hear someone mention solidarity the hairs on my back instinctively go up since it usually means someone wants to benefit at my expense, the experience is rather similar as to how you feel when you are talking with a salesman. I suppose one can say that people have become merchants in guilt.
I don’t really see what those values you mention have to do with culture. The nobility of old had a very developed ‘culture’, but they weren’t more moral,shameful or empathetic than the average person. Dare I say that much like the stoic patriarchs of the old roman republic they loathed the virtues you cite since emotions such as pity not only lower the person that experiences it but also the target of it. The pity and empathy found in Europe are but means for the poor to gain more material goods which may make them more cunning than the ones in the states but their goals are just as base. True altruism is detached and done voluntarily. This form of altruism isn’t found more frequently in Europe than in the states. If it was the case then Europeans would give more to charity and volunteer more often than Americans which is not the case by far. Americans give 3 1/2 times the amount of money the French donate to charity and more than 12 times the amount Germans give to charity. They also volunteer more often than either. During the industrial revolution Americans were debating how much of ones wealth one should give to the less fortunate while in Europe people were making modest proposals for solving poverty. The main debate was centered around whether it was better to starve the poor or sterilize them. It got to the point where people like Bismarck had to create social security to bribe the poor into remaining in Europe and it barely reduced the amount of Germans that left for the states.
The concept of noblesse obliges doesn’t seem to be as present in Europe as in the states apparantly if nobility is determined by the having of the virtues you cite. Maybe a hundred years ago your post would have been accurate, but in the digital age Europe is as materialistic as those other two great experiments in materialism known as the Soviet Union and the USA.
Of course Western Europe is largely on the same
path as the US. That’s why I usually write about
Western Civ, not just US. Funny about noblesse oblige,
a distinctly European, indeed French, concept.
But I believe that the more social redistributed programs
there are, the less philanthropy you will see.
That’s a pity, as philanthropists usually have lots
more sense and get lots more bang for the buck
than any government does.
Thor
The U.S. has deep and vast cultural reserves.
For instance look at the many continuing education offerings available through the many public institutions, private instututions, an through individuals in Bouler, Coloorado. Poetry writing, chi-kung healing touch, massage therapy, yoga, meditation, music, martial arts, literature. On any given night you can attend a public lecture by a respected enthusiast on the subject of your interest and be surrounded by a community with like interests. And the level of expertise available is world class, and often imported from the global pool of experts.
The U.S. is a big place, and harbors pockets of of highly cultured individuals – sometimes these pockets are broadly scattered. Were you aware of the popularity of cowboy poetry, and were you aware of the cowboy poetry gatherings?
European culture is ravaged by socialo-communism. Have you ever read about their legislative and presidential campaigns. In France where I’m temporarily stuck for professional reasons, I am under the impression that the bolcheviks are coming back. There is unbelievable stuff on the media, like confiscatory fiscal policies limiting personal income to 30ks a month, or pure upfront communist diatribes about the virtues of collectivism.
Europeans are going full retard. Tolerating that kind of shit is the sign that leftists are gonna win again, sooner or later.
They all need a bunch of McCarthys. God bless his soul.
Excellent inquiry once again marred by evo-babble. Fruit flies, brother?
We do not relate to nerds poking at insects.
And “protectors of the tribe”? You can stop proving and re-proving the essential social need for and attraction to manliness. You have no legitimate opponents of that contention here, we all have drunk that particular Kool Aid. As for those who disagree, you will not persuade them with Excel spreadsheets and Just So Stories from The Savannah.
You persuade by example. You made your name by preaching your example. You have brought men (and women) on board by keen observation and an uncommon ability to analyze and articulate what you have witnessed. Focus on your strengths, exploit your own talent. You have zero need to dabble in epistemology. You put your entire corpus in jeopardy by sourcing all of your wisdom to a flimsy premise unworthy of your output. You’re soaring over the landscape of lies … with a cinder block chained to your ankle. Cut it loose. This dorky obsession with science websites is polluting your swagger.
Your point being that western society is NOT collapsing and CH’s theories are unfounded? Please enlighten us.
http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/pictures/3-men-in-wuhan-crawl-in-leashes-to-promote-womens-equality.html
Wow. Just wow.
Never get a response from my emails or on forums so figured i’d try here.
Here is text convo thus far with a very whimsical/slutty/shit testing fuck buddy:
Me: U called.
her 2 hours later: yes and you laughed and didn’t want to talk to me (all true, stupid fucking friend thought it prudent to mention my laughter to her)
Me 4 hours later: no idea what ur talking about. got a new cell phone ( hadnt had one for 2 weeks)
Her instantly: That’s cool. What’s your number?
Her 1 hour later: When are you going to come back over? NAME said that you probably wouldn’t be over for a little while. You should get a job and then you can rent that room downstairs from us. NAME has his army weekend this weekend and I could really use someone here to watch NAME while I work. My grandma said she would, but she is 79 years old. I would only be at work a couple hours. Figured out my kindle fire was stolen, NAME is going to file a police report tomorrow so I am not sure when he will be home. I am drinking UV blue and lemonade. I need a drinking buddy.
me: 1 hour later: is this private?
her 20 mins: this is private.
her 30 mins later: NAME can see lol (her husband……)
me: 2 hours later: Jw. I was cybering with some girl, didnt want the entire world to see.
I’ll coming but you have to tell me what time you’re leaving for work.
her instantly: I have to leave around 10am
so if you come, you should come tonight
..
me instantly: K, will you be up at 11?
Her 5 mins later: Maybe. On my second drink and getting sleepy oh so sleepy.
Me 1 hour later: bleh im too tired.
Her 1 hour later: Ok. Good night.
Me next day:comin mon/tues. ask NAME if i can just put the tip in when i get there.
..
Her 7 mins later while at work: NAME You’re sick. NAME moved out so no company all next week please
..
End transmission.
Some notes: I once asked Her while she was teasing me if i’d pay for sex if I could just put the tip in for some change. NAME is Her friend that’s been staying over and She loves when I tease/game her.
How to proceed? I’m thinking of saying, ” I’ll come over when I damn well please” I’m coming over reguardless, I have shit to do in that town and i’m best friends with her husband. Or is that bad? Btw she is ovulating.
Heartiste wrote: “Conservatives: freedom and prosperity mean a slackening of external behavioral motivators and the erosion of commonality and shared values and the means with which to argue for them.”
Already baked into our cake, but thanks for the reminder. Some conservatives are tempted to forget this cornerstone of the political philosophy. So they go flirt with libertarianism until intellectual honesty brings them back — if they’re fortunate. As one of the fathers of modern conservatism Russell Kirk said about liberty obsessives, they are “chirping sectaries” and a “sour little remnant” who regard “the notion of personal freedom as the whole end of the civil social order, and indeed human existence.” What’s the difference between a libertarian and a conservative? The conservative acknowledges the limits of liberty as you claim to be educating us about above. The very thing you think we didn’t realize is the distinguishing characteristic of the conservative.
“Maxim #1,000: Prosperity contains within it the seed of its own destruction.”
We learned this fact of politics when we read Plato’s Republic. Ever since there have been hundreds of reiterations. It helps to be familiar with “the best that has been thought and said” (Arnold). The U.S. Constitution was designed to avoid and correct for the predictable excesses of success. Religion itself is a feature of civilization everywhere as a bulwark against this natural corruption, as the way to extract “the seed of [prosperity’s] own destruction.”
“Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty” (Frank Herbert, of “Fear is the mindkiller” fame).
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.
(attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler, 1748-1813)
The latest book-length iteration of this ancient wisdom is Paul Rahe’s Soft Despotism, Democracy’s Drift.
Prosperity does not by itself create our corruption. It is the misuses of prosperity that bring the dissolution. Not “money” per se, but “the love of money is the root of all evil.” If men cannot master themselves, they invite a master from the top. Liberty requires self-discipline. “Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed” (Burke). There can be no liberty without virtue, and no virtue without voluntary discipline (Benjamin Rush).
Of course success and prosperity and liberty itself corrupts. We even have a word for it: decadence. This is why your libertinism is a non-starter. Hedonism doesn’t just contain a seed of its own destruction, it is the very cause of the destruction of liberty in every instance. By mistaking license for independence, libertinism devours the source of the prosperity that tolerated its behavior in the first place.
Salient points.
But all of this should have been shouted and etched in stone a few decades ago. Now it’s too late. The dogs are unchained, pandora’s box is open and it’s party time.
I’m with CH on this one.
You misunderstand Hayek here. Libertariansim more than Conservatism, if practiced correctly would reinforce good behavior over bad behavior and lead to virtue because bad behavior would be punished by the market place, both economical and social. We have placed into the legal domain what used to be resolved through social convention. Most Libertarians just want to cut back on the myriad of make work social services jobs for women, who are paid to supervise the family and all the men they throw into jail for violating the sanctity of female notions of proper society and maybe get a hooker and burn a joint or two. You can have a conservative society within that framework that meets your needs King A. You could limit the sacrifice of freedom to some 1-2 year civil service obligation that allowed no exceptions to anyone healthy. That would throw the rich together with the poor and give the Gods of Diversity what they’ve always asked for- real human experience.
More than anything, we need to stop penalizing those who would start a family in our legal system. We need to place the same emphasis on maintaining the family that we now place on destroying it. A simple change of message and much less state interference in our lives would go a long way to making all of us happy. We need to get the government out of education and replace it with charter schools and private schools to get the non-stop socialist propaganda out of education. More religion probably wouldn’t hurt either. We have a huge and bloated government and it’s folly to say we need it all. How many police forces does the nation need? Did anyone know that the Department of Education Inspector General has a swat team with all the heavy weapons, etc.? We don’t need that to have a well run society. We subsidize bad behavior, Bad behavior will fall off if it becomes as expensive as it would be without subsidy. Too much now is artificially expensive or illegal because some interest group or other deems it a threat, regardless of its true harm or benefit. Where does the rule of law end? Your philosophy also leads to bloated government and corruption due to the rules created that create market irregularities and opportunities to game the system. Not to mention, too much power once again, in the hands of a self appointed elite.
Non sequitur. There is no correlation between the fact that true democracy results in the have nots voting themselves the fruits of the haves’ labors, thus destroying society, and the natural law eternal freedom a boss might have to fuck his secretary and a professor his students, which is essential for keeping bosses and professors motivated to build and educate.
Libertines and Liberals are not the same thing. The former, alphas, are being regulated more now, by the feminists, than ever before (meaning they have less power than ever before in history) and the latter are now stronger and more dangerous than ever before in history.
You can’t compare them. Nice try though.
Got some more ideas for responding.
Just not responding at all, disappearing for a month until she is ovulating again, than randomly showing up and telling her that I don’t like her hair like that and backturning.
Or saying you’re not the boss of me! and showing up as planned. Her little nephew says this to her when she tries to discipline him.
Cheer up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vffqnYUyFVQ&feature=related
“You don’t understand the class structure of American society,” said Smetana, “or you would not ask such a question. In the United States, the working class are Democrats. The middle class are Republicans. The upper class are Communists…The Communist conspiracy is unlike any ever known before. In the past, conspiracy always meant secrecy, concealment. The peculiarity of Communism is that everybody really knows who these people are and what the conspiracy is and how it works. But everybody connives at it because nobody wants to believe his own eyes. It is something new under the sun. It is conspiracy in the open.”
— from “Witness” by Whittaker Chambers
I’ve been saying it for a long time as well. These are the Lords of Lies spoken of above. They have been around since the 30s, because communism would entrench them as an elite, a caste of nobility. SWPLs lick their boots in the hopes of being accepted and approved by these upper class people Chambers discusses above. I need to read that book. The Left never forgave Nixon for going after Alger Hiss and that is why we had Watergate. Obama has done far worse and the press never says a word.
An excellent, and profoundly depressing analysis. I would differ with some of the analysis (I think the alpha/beta classification system is somewhat simplistic, when applied to humans), but the overall conclusions seem robust to me.
I’d argue that there are several kinds of societies forming, one might break into intelligence-competition systems, and physical-competition systems. Charles Murray’s book seems to suggest that there are two entirely separate social systems forming, one in which the intelligent self-select into a hierarchical system based on intelligence and productivity, and another in which the less-intelligent self-select into a hierarchical system based on welfare and warfare. Others have called this “Makers vs. Takers,” and the like.
Short of a wrenching social transformation, I think we’re headed for either disintegration, or increasing separatism and conflict between the ‘intelligence competitors” and “violence competitors.” This is what we’re seeing already in Iraq and Afghanistan: they use suicide bombers and zealot-warriors, we increasingly use drones, robots, and smart-munitions guided from thousands of miles away in air-conditioned office buildings.
Libertarians: laissez faire means the cementing of intractable human hereditary differences into antagonistic classes and milieus.
As I keep telling you, you know jack shit regarding economics. This statement is BULLSHIT. In fact, its just the opposite. Laissez Faire breaks down classes and creates a far more fluid society. You obviously have read nothing on economic history. How the hell can you speak with such apparent certainty when you are clearly ignorant on entire subjects of human thought?
Liberals: nonjudgmental individualism means a collapse of social capital and a surrender of any moral or aesthetic authority.
Again, this statement shows that you know NOTHING of philosophy or the history of moral thought especially over the last three centuries. You, like all Conservatives, are militantly anti-philosophical. That is because you are a materialist who is advocating political biologism. Somewhat scary after the history of the mid 20th century.
If you knew anything about Post-Modern philosophy and the emergence of the Left, you would know that the “non-judgementalism” that you speak of is not inherent in “liberalism”. It is a by product of the skepticism of the left which is the result of certain trends of philosophic skepticism unleashed by the most influential philosophers of the last there centuries most notably Hume and Kant. It is this skepticism, this divorcing of “is” from “ought” that has destroyed morality. When the moderns rightly rejected religion and supernaturalism they ended up throwing out the baby with the bathwater; ie they rejected the existence of moral values along with supernaturalist metaphysics. This paved the way for post-modernism which paved the way for the Left which paved the way for feminism which paved the way for today’s woman.
you are making the same arguments that Christian Conservatives make; you are doing the same shit Larry Auster does. You are trying to argue that egoism is destructive and that liberty is self-liquidating; so therefore human sexuality should be controlled by the state because individual liberty will inevitable lead to societal collapse. True Conservatives say this, Leftists say this (using economics) and you are arguing it using sex and hypergamy.
Did you ever ask yourself this: Today we are living in a culture that allows *some* personal freedoms; ie it allows sexual liberation (but it does not allow legalized drugs or prostitution). But we are also living in a society that is a sem-socialist society with MASSIVE regulatory interference, MASSIVE inflationary destruction of the monetary unit, MASSIVE confiscatory rates of taxation, Public education systems which destroy children’s minds, etc, etc.. Did you ever ask yourself what the societal dynamics would look like if we packaged sexual liberty with economic liberty?
No. You never do because you are a nihilistic collectivist fuck like pretty much all the other materialists on the Left and their Conservative soulmates.
You think you are special, but you’re pedaling the same central planning, rule-from-above shit that the Leftists you say you abhor do. You’re nothing knew.
And learn some economics will you. You are such a dumb fuck on that subject that I think such ignorance automatically classifies you as an honorary beta male.
I think the argument that he is a materialist is right on. “When you’re a hammer, all the world looks like a nail” and so on. We tend to approach reality based on our particular temperament and personality.
I chat at forums where a lot of Millenials hang out. What you say is correct. The power of philosophy and ideas is not to be underestimated, prosperity aside. These kids’ minds’ have been corrupted and destroyed, as if by a virus. And these are bright kids – supposedly some of our best.
I think, though, that economic liberty is unachievable without reconstituting morality in America. So how to do this without central planning? Perhaps the easiest path is shrinking the powers of the federal government by returning power back to the states and the citizenry. Taking away the left’s “one ring to rule them all” is a fine start.
A conservative libertarian has a lot to grapple with here: freedom and prosperity are the real “culprits” here, and their interaction with natural genetic variation. Not the welfare state. Not the government. Not apathetic elites. Not globalism or “stagnant wages”. Any major reversals in these trends would seemingly require major, forceful social controls, because they are the consequences of a very pervasive kind of individualism and of freedom of thought.
This guy’s a bigger idiot than you. do you seriously believe that the welfare state does not influence human behavior both economic and sexual? Do you seriously believe that economic interventions do not influence behavior? What do you think the consequence of the repeal of the minimum wage laws would be? Economic collapse or greater economic prosperity? Can you answer that one Mr. “freedom contains the seeds of its own destruction”?
Tell me something else. Where is all this “freedom” you say is destroying the West? Huh asshat. Where exactly? Can you even answer that simple fucking question.
Dude, I would love to see you in the field. I would bet big money you suck and that you are nothing but a keyboard jockey.
You’re not even a third rate intellectual. Make a serious economic challenge to the inherent instability of laissez-faire not this pop-psychology bullshit. Moron.
[heartiste: you sound tense. rough night?]
Minus the vitriol, the poster has some points.
But a useful distinction can be made between
freedom TO something, read the “right” to force
others to support you, on one hand, and the
freedom FROM something, i.e. freedom from
coercion, making you do or refrain from doing
something.
We are experiencing an explosion of freedoms
TO, including welfare (and corporate welfare,
see Solyndra), much bigger than most advocates
say. Include (for the US, most Western nations
are similar, although the details and nomenclature
varies) Aid to Families with Dependent Children
(this is the official “welfare”), Food “stamps”,
WIC (more free food), Earned Income Credit
(negative income tax in many cases), Medicaid/Medical,
Section 8 (government subsidized) housing and probably
more handouts that I don’t even know about, I never
collected any of this. While individual cases vary,
the net impact is the creation of a welfare class,
typically headed by single mothers. Generally, this
kind of “freedom” is corrosive to the individual and
to society.
At the same time the Freedom FROM is radically
downsized, starting with the massive future tax
liabilities (i.e. government deficits), Homeland
Security, an onslaught of new regulations by
out-of-control (or at least providing some
plausible deniability when needed) agencies
as well as by the legistlature. (Stroke of a pen,
law of the land, kinda cool dixit Paul Begala)
Thor
Randroids are the sincerest of losers. Libertarians are the real nihilists, given they exist in only in their fantasy vacuum.
“As I keep telling you, you know jack shit regarding economics. This statement is BULLSHIT. In fact, its just the opposite. Laissez Faire breaks down classes and creates a far more fluid society.”
Breaks down classes?
Yes in the political sense.
No – at least compared to the present – in an economic sense.
Quite the opposite.
But it would be a class structure based more
on productivity and far less on being well connected politically,
mainly because there would be far less politics to be connected to.
Creates a far more fluid society?
YES, highly likely. It would be a more FUN as well as a more
productive society.
Thor
OK enough about this, time for me to ask some advice…
There is a girl who has been pursuing me for some time. She’s quite pretty but for a number of reasons I didn’t want to give in (it wasn’t just “game,” I just happen to have little desire for her). This only made her want me more so finally she threw herself at me so much that I did give in and we made out. But she insists that before we fuck I should get tested. The reason is because she knows I’ve traveled in the third world and fucked prostitutes, so she insists on this. Now, I would do it for a girl who’s a virgin or something, but I know this girl has had one-night stands in the past and hasn’t asked other guys to get tested (her excuse is that she “knows” they didn’t do the kind of stuff I did in the past, which strikes me as bullshit). So I’m not really in the mood to do it for her, and even find the demand insulting. The question is would it be completely beta to agree to her demand that I get tested? I think the alpha way to proceed is just to dump her for even asking. On the other hand I don’t mind meeting and making out with her from time to time so maybe I’ll just continue that.
She’s more likely to give you gardnerella. Make sure she takes a piss test with you.
In other news, Whitney Houston is dead at the age of 48, cause of death currently “unknown”, which typically means drug OD.
She had it all, gorgeous, talented, admired, wealthy.
She spent her 20′s and 30′s basking in the admiration of millions of guys, went the Alpha route, hung out with thugs, didn’t learn.
My suspicion is that she wound up at 48, realized she was getting old, wasn’t so pretty any more, the only action from an Alpha she was going to get was what she paid for, and just could not deal with it.
[heartiste: yes, this is the best explanation of her subconscious state of mind. but you won’t hear this narrative by the shitlapping msm. whitney was a victim of her own choices as much as the drugs.]
Subconsciously, maybe. But don’t forget that she was dating a 30 year old rapper, the same nigga who was fucking kim kardashian in her sextape.
Lords of Lies… clearly a reference to the ‘chosen’ people. Nice work.
Im going to rename this site “Chateau BITCH MOAN”.
Its interesting to watch you crackers whine like little bitches all because you MIGHT hafta start being USEFUL and CONSTRUCTIVE instead of just fucking pale.
Boo fucking hoo.
Yall remind me of racists who wanna get in arguments with me over “what their ancesto the rs accomplished”.
Who the fuck cares.
Time waits for no one.
Ya’ll just gonna hafta get off the fucking sofa, put down the bag of chips, and take your son OUTSIDE and SHOW HIM how to split wood, SHOW HIM how to tackle, SHOW HIM how to DO THINGS OF CONSTRUCTIVE VALUE.
Instead of sitting around COASTING off his pale skin like it counts for something.
This site is amazing. Im gonna start leading nigger tours over here so they can see this bitchfest for themselves.
Somewhere in some gated community a house is missing its lawn jockey.
Boy, you’d be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle.
Arithmetic is a cruel enemy to have working against you, and that’s what you’ve got with democracy. As somebody said, democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what they’ll have for dinner.
Yes, the individual imperative vs. the collective unconscious, locked in an eternal dialectic struggle. The pendulum swings to and fro, the wheel turns, ad infinitum ad nauseum.
Yet there is an escape.
” Laissez Faire breaks down classes and creates a far more fluid society. ”
I agree. That is precisely why Laissez-faire is hated by both the left and the right.
They don’t want a society where the people can rise trough their own hard work and where the old elites can’t count on remaining so. They want to be able to force you to do what they want you to do.
Sure. The top end of the ruling classes, in any system, are NOT interested in any major changes. Indeed, why should they be?
One of the most thuroughgoing examples of this is China.
Around 1400, they were most likely the most advanced country
on earth, by many measures. The distance to Europe made the
comparison hard to make, however.
The ruling elite saw Chinese ships sailing as far as East Africa.
They could possibly have become the rulers of the world in
another century or two. BUT, the ruling classes realized that
foreign influence, and/or potentially disruptive technologies,
might be, well, disruptive. And, horrors, there might be
realignments in the structure of society, some lowly merchants
and engineers, not Mandarins, getting to the top. No, we
can’t have that.
So they banned almost all foreign trade, put a tight lid on
technological innovation, and more or less froze the country
in amber for over 400 years. Make no mistake, these policies
WORKED, at least for those who designed it and most of their
descendants. But the bill came in, long overdue.
Problem 1: China was now outclassed by the industrializing
countries in Western Europe and increasingly North America.
Embarasing. They tried to wave off trade with Britain saying
“China has everything it could ever want”. Translation,
“We the ruling elite have everything we want, including
plenty of servants. And if we want some Western-style
material object, we can put 100 peons to make it”.
This was at least approximately true.
Problem 2. The peons got restless, but more importantly at first,
the rising ambitions of the middle class (or, actually, more like
“wanna-be middle class”), staged the revoultion of 1911.
And a generation or so later, yet another revolution,
producing the largest loss of life (in actual numbers, not
percentage) in history, before or since to date.
(It is interesting to compare the Sun Yat Sen / Mao
pair with the Kerensky / Lenin pair, the main difference
being the time lag, about 40 years vs. about 7 months.)
Thor
I think that chateau would like The Fable of The Bee’s. I think the problem is democracy and its hatred of aristocratic values and its inability to establish a base of power other than the general will. There will be a strong demand for anyone who can restore sexual law and order in the near future – whether it be sharia, sspx or maybe the patriclans of afghanistan/the former yugoslavia….
OT, but I thought you all would like this:
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2012/02/12/
Democracy (which is not freedom), particularly allowing women to vote, is another big problem. The one piece of leverage betas have, the wealth they create over their life times, is stripped by them from women voting overwhelmingly to take it.
Mr. Heartiste, you would be very interested in this gentleman’s work. His etiology of the alpha is slightly different, but his identification of the alpha role is similar to many ideas opined here. The first youtube video is of direct relevance, and the others offer etiologies of single motherhood and dual-income families from the perspective of a property rights anarcho-capitalist. (philosophically, you and this , gentleman may well be at a philosophical crossroads as it pertains to the role of the state, but the two of you seem to share similar views as it pertains to the economics of recent gender roles).
http://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot?ob=4#p/u/24/uIruXQws97g
http://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot?ob=4#p/u/23/fNx2SLJVwy8
http://www.youtube.com/user/stefbot?ob=4#p/u/21/n51kdAFPN7U
Great links, thanks.
Thor
The elite are coming down quickly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3t121qLw7k
the whole world is fucked!