Today I will continue building on yesterday’s post and discuss how to defend yourself against the next femme fatale in Clio’s list. (As per M. Blowhard’s suggestion, I’ve split up the posts for easier reading.)
She can be distinguished from the Waif, however, by the fact that where the Waif is often silent, and usually still, the Eternal Ingenue is in continual, graceful, coltish motion. Nor is she surrounded by an aura of doom-laden unhappiness. She talks a lot. She laughs a good deal. She is above all else, animated. Prancing, gambolling, frolicking like a puppy or a pony, she is often described as “charming” or “enchanting.”
When guys talk about being attracted to an ethereal “girlishness” in women, they are thinking of ingenues from their pasts. Being a man is tough — it requires strength, stoicism, and seriousness of purpose. We are drawn to the opposite in women, yang to yin, and so the ingenue — the antithesis of the hardened alpha male — captures our imagination like no other woman can. Of the four femme fatales Clio wrote of, the Eternal Ingenue comes closest to embodying the essence of the perfect woman. And, unfortunately, she is also the most diffcult to tame.
What makes an ordinary Ingenue into a femme fatale, one who goes through many men and breaks their hearts, is that this is a woman “in love with love,” who has a dream-image of the perfect love, and perfect lover, in her mind, and is perpetually seeking the one man who can make her feel as she wants to feel.
Perfection is the enemy of settling. Eternal Ingenues run a risk of growing older alone. They won’t be cougars — they’re too feminine, cute and coy for that — but they are the most likely to end up cat ladies babbling to themselves about their potted marigolds. She can avoid this fate by being more hard-headed, but that has its cost. Cultivation of her pragmatic side will weaken her otherworldy whimsical side, which is the big generator of her power.
An element of the Ingenue’s search for the perfect love is that she must convince herself that all her previous loves were wrong or bad or not “real” love at all, so they didn’t count, because, you see, for her the only perfect love is first love. As a result of all this self-deception, she is able to seem virginal even when she is not.
This falls right into line with one of my maxims.
Roissy Maxim #7: The sweeter and more innocent a girl seems, the greater the likelihood she has been in a gangbang.
Corollary: Always assume she is a whore. It helps kick the legs out from under the pedestal you will be tempted to put her on, and it is more often than not true.
You really want to be wary of any woman who overly romaticizes her quest for love. She is probably what Clio described: A woman who will pick you apart for minor faults in the most gratingly passive-aggressive way possible, and finally leave you on the flimsiest pretext, often bounding straight into the arms of another man without even a pause for common courtesy.
This kind of woman is often a natural “daddy’s girl,” though her father may have been rather weak, but one who either lost her father early, or has had to share him with other women (her mother, her sisters, a step-mother), and wants him all to herself. She’ll put her trust in a handful of other women, but they are often much older than she is. […]
Having dated a number of Eternal Ingenues myself, I can say this rings true. They either came from divorced families with fathers who bought their love and loyalty, or they had a caring beta father heading an all-female family who had to divide his love between women. You’ll know if you are dating a potential Ingenue if you meet her girlfriends and they are all overprotective and annoyingly sassy cougars-in-training. The Eternal Ingenue HATES competition from attractive girls her own age.
The Ingenue doesn’t necessarily refuse to be responsible or adult. She simply maintains an air of girlish sweetness and innocence through middle and old age. […]
Unlike Waifs, Eternal Ingenues can take care of themselves. Which makes them more difficult prey.
…the waif’s childlike qualities may make a man feel protective: they do not make him feel fatherly. The whole point of the Ingenue is that she brings out this feeling in men. She makes them want to initiate her into the world, but gently, in a fatherly way, with books and talk and advice.
Maybe one of the reasons I date so many Eternal Ingenues is that I date so many younger women. The two go hand in hand. But I’m not fatherly in the least. Books and talk and advice are beta. The only thing I initiate them into is a world of sexual depravity and soul-rending love addiction.
Men: The Eternal Ingenue is extremely alluring as a sexual conquest. You may bed her, but winning her over is an entirely separate challenge. Because you are constantly being compared in her mind to her imaginary “perfect first love” you will be shit tested until the cougars come home. Because there will be so much competition from other men for her attentions, you will be subjected to an endless stream of capricious disloyalty from her, if not outright cheating. It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been dating her — she will be the one keeping you up at night wondering if she’s tonguing down some random dude on the steps of the National Cathedral at 3 AM, and the odds are she will be. And, as a charming but inveterate liar, she will be the best at hiding her whorish soul from you.
If you want to break her will, you must, first and foremost, never get thrown back on your heels. If she puts you on the defensive, consider yourself done. This means being acutely aware of her shit tests, and passing them with flying colors. Hone your cocky funny skills to perfection, and parry EVERYTHING she throws your way with the amused mastery of a Jedi player. Example:
Her: “Oh GOD, your taste in music is SO lame. You never play anything I like.”
You: “I didn’t know you were the music czar. I think I’ll just call you ITunes from now on. Hey, ITunes, make me a sandwich!”
Next, be vigilant about your encroaching neediness. Oh Satan below, do Ingenues despise needy men. It will take a lot of willpower, but you should occasionally cancel dates on her and, when sex is imminent, find some excuse to walk away, leaving her horny and unsatisfied. Ingenues love the father figure (are fathers needy? no), so play up those strengths — be her authority, lead, slap her when necessary, playfully dismiss her juvenile provocations, and always be prepared to lay down the law. This last will often mean walking away from her never looking back.
Don’t feel guilty about dating around on an Ingenue. Her loyalty is razor thin, so your virtue will gain you nothing. In fact, an Ingenue will love you more if she suspects you are still playing the field. She needs the challenge, like she relished the challenge of winning her father’s affections away from her sister.
Like the Waif, the Ingenue eight balls her emotional highs from the act of chasing men. She does not suffer long men who chase her — this fleeting wisp of a woman. Of all the femme fatales, she yearns to seek your approval the most and wants to actually win it the least. Unlike the Amazonian Alpha, whom I will discuss tomorrow, the Ingenue can’t tolerate heavy-handed qualifying early on, but she needs to be qualified on a continual basis with a subtler touch. You always have to judge her, without being judgmental. This is a fine art.
Her: “I bought this new dress today. What do you think?”
You: “Nice. But I’m surprised you’re going in that direction. It seems… unique.”
Finally, the most important advice: Because Eternal Ingenues are “in love with love” you should withhold announcing your love for her as long as humanly possible. An old Russian saying: Once a woman captures your heart she loses interest. This is doubly true for the Ingenue. What she doesn’t know, or doesn’t want to know, is that there never was a perfect love in her life, and there never will be, at least not by the impossible standards to which she has elevated the concept. If you lavish her with your love she will find it easier to evaluate her fantasy of love against what you are giving her. You will invariably come up short. So keep her guessing, keep her in the dark, and slowly over time she’ll fill in the blanks and begin imagining that YOUR love is the love she’s been waiting for.
this shit is gold!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of the various fatales described, this is the one which is my particular weakness. I’ve had my soul blown to smithereens twice, and the first time it was an Eternal Ingenue. At that point I was entirely unprepared to deal with one. They still call out to me (as do the non-fatal ingenues), but as I am now pretty sensitive to their dangers, I can dodge.
“she will be the one keeping you up at night wondering if she’s tonguing down some random dude on the steps of the National Cathedral at 3 AM, and the odds are she will be. And, as a charming but inveterate liar, she will be the best at hiding her whorish soul from you.”
Say thanks but no thanks to the Dick Sandwich… walk away
How many times do you think Roissy stopped to masturbate while he was writing this?
…
How many times do you think David Alexander will stop to masturbate while he’s reading it?
How many times do you think David Alexander will stop to masturbate while he’s reading it?
how much wood can a DA tug if a DA could tug wood?
answer: 500 terabytes worth.
Sage Roissy, does every woman fall in to one of these femme fatale categories? It seems not the case to me.
Where as every man can be labeled alpha, beta, omega (in your eyes), are there such easy categories for women?
VK, I hear dick sandwich is pretty tasty with some dijon.
Sage Roissy, does every woman fall in to one of these femme fatale categories?
no, some women are pieces of each category. and not all women are fatales. only the most desirable ones. because they can be.
huh… this sounds like my current girlfriend. i shall have to reread this later
good shit mang
“Of all the femme fatales, she yearns to seek your approval the most and actually wants to win it the least.”
Oh, this eternal conundrum!
P.S. Have you been reading my diary?
Dear Lemmy,
In some parts of the city it’s considered rude not to offer the dick sandwich without mayo
I believe all bangable women have administered at least one dick sandwhich in their lifetimes. Its just a question of whether they will admit it or you’re the next one eating it.
Roissy remarks that “not all women are fatales. only the most desirable ones. because they can be.”
Only the most desirable? Or only the most unavailable, unattainable, the biggest challenge?
With so many attractive alternatives, how do humans manage to maintain relationships at all?
The brain appears to have some tricks up its neural sleeve. A new line of research is exploring how automatic psychological mechanisms kick into action when the eye starts to wander, helping resist temptation and strengthening the relationship — even without us being aware of it.
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-mating15-2008sep15,0,5766094.story
yeah,…..roissy is just not a happy human being! We all read the lamentations of the pussyless, daily! I myself am a “beta”(if your going to use only pseudo-evopsych), and I am in an LTR with a nice younger girl. I used to be pussyless like roissy, and had a period of serious drought. I read junk like roissy’s on sites like: “intellectualwhores.com”, and in the end, I found a good woman, and i am happy.
Roissy, this post, as well the previous one, are simply brilliant. Cheers, mate
Ummm, does anyone else think that Roissy sounds like a sort of annoying and tiresome person to be in a relationship with? Constant defensive maneuvering is no way to go through life.
Although he is a fine blogger!
I had a years-long, on-again off-again “relationship” with one of these. Roissy and AliasClio have nailed the definition of this type of chick. They don’t quite emphasize enough what a pain in the ass they are, though.
You can read the humiliating story here of how it all finally came to an end, thank God. Think of it as an additional warning.
I think TurkeyBaster needs a big ol dick-sammich…
These seem like more trouble than may be worth it.
Roissy is the truth.
*Screams and punches wall*
Clio, darling why are you giving away female game to these men???
*cries out loud and rolls around on the floor*
LOL,
is chicnoir an ingenue?
@Turkeybaster115-Good, because some of the men on this site worry me. They make me want to give up on men and just find a girlfriend.
Maybe, 😆
but I don’t go about breaking hearts. I would certainly dump a guy in a heart beat if he says hurtful things to me.
They make me want to give up on men and just find a girlfriend.
mpeg.
MQ
Ummm, does anyone else think that Roissy sounds like a sort of annoying and tiresome person to be in a relationship with
Yes he does. He is the male version of The Rules girls.
mpeg.
?
“I would certainly dump a guy in a heart beat if he says hurtful things to me.”
Well that is pretty healthy.
chic and mq typed by the pale moonlight:
Yes he does. He is the male version of The Rules girls.
i had a feeling about you two!
hey, mq, maybe you can persuade chic to put back the avatar of her big delicious booty.
?
if you get a GF film it for the studio audience. don’t forget to scissor.
This is one of Roissy’s all star pieces.
Yesterday’s post on golddiggers and waif/neurotics had lots of good insights as well, but most of those are fairly well known. Today’s stuff on the Eternal ingenue, particularly her particular sorts of daddy issues and the recycling “first love” insight as well, and others, is much more novel.
if you get a GF film it for the studio audience. don’t forget to scissor.
😯
I had no idea what “to scissior” was until a week ago. I am in to the Beth Ditto type, so I will certainly send you a video. I am sure you and DA will enjoy.
@yours truly- Do you live in the Netherlands, Belgium or Germany?
I think Roissy is basically a confused guy with conflicting desires who is trying to learn how to deal with that inner conflict. He may also be running from the demons in his head.
He uses many ugly words, which shows unresolved frustration. But deep down he is a fairly decent person, I guess. Selfish though. But mostly just confused.
“@yours truly- Do you live in the Netherlands, Belgium or Germany?”
Yes, why?
I wonder if Roissy keeps a list of all his maxims in a ready-made document called “maxims.txt” or “Roissy Maxim.doc” on his desktop.
And I also don’t think he really is as dominant of a man as he seeks to portray and project through his game and machinations.
It’s a close enough approximation for many to be fooled. Still, I agree with MQ it seems exhausting. That can be fun for a while. Games are meant to be played for the short term, but then they get boring.
The deeper problem with relationships is that there is always a “better alternative” in both parties minds. Because the sexual marketplace is very deep, very anonymous in urban areas, and essentially cost-less.
Ingenues will pull the stuff they do, because there is no cost to them doing so. How could there be? Same for PUA also, there is no cost to having various relationships with other girls at the same time.
Typical complaint of small-town girls: they can’t sleep around with the limited selection and not incur costs. They can in urban areas.
Again, in this sort of sexual marketplace, women should not expect any more loyalty on an aggregate basis than women demonstrate on an aggregate basis. Indeed, incentives on both parties pretty much guarantee, there is not going to be much if any fidelity.
A man is involved with a girl — how does he “trust” her not to be dating other guys at the same time, and vice-versa? There is no verification mechanism as in small, close-knit communities, thus every incentive to “cheat before” the partner does. This dynamic is probably worse if the partner gives indications of cheating — the Ingenue’s constant flirting, the PUA’s constant flirting, etc.
Then there’s the problem of baggage — each partner quite possibly mis-identifying the other’s true nature/intentions. A girl who is merely affable and likes to joke being thought of as a Ingenue, a guy eager to ingratiate himself into a woman’s circle thought of as a PUA.
Hope 34 –
Yours Truly 32 –
You girls do realize that at a fundamental level these comments are motivated by female “shit testing” don’t you? It’s part of your regular reassessing whether you really should feel as attracted to / admiring of Roissy as you do, but often don’t want to.
It bears some superficial similarity to how males approach evaluating what Roissy has to say, but it’s also fundamentally different. One of the differences is that many of you girls keep doing it periodically, long after you’ve decided there’s plenty here of interest.
Guys don’t.
Initially we to want to figure out how much “there is there”. After all, Roissy’s messages are all predicated on what works best with women, often surprisingly to most women and even more surprisingly to most men, especially the more beta they are. So it’s important, as in critical, to get an idea of whether it’s all bullshiite or not. Guys in particular also want to get a sense of whether it’s really the knowledge (“game”) that’s playing a big role, or if it’s all really good looks, natual story telling ability, and an inborn cocky attitude and the like which are the real secrets of what seems like it has to be a whole lot of success.
However, after getting a sense that while those things probably do play a role the game techniques and the knowledge of what makes women sexually tick that lies behind them are also a big deal and in fact do reveal much, most men stop feeling any great desire to continually test the “real Roissy”. Instead after intially checking for truth versus lies, men see what can be learned here, and what rings true.
In contrast, many women keep coming back to trying to figure out just how high up in the alpha category Rossy truely is. Just how wet should they feel.
It’s pretty interesting — and amusing.
Chicnoir 23–
They make me want to give up on men and just find a girlfriend.
Next you’ll be threatening to move to Canada! ;D
Doug,
Roissy does not seem like my sort of guy at all. He is a bit too old for me and not the sort of person who really takes responsibility for his life. Most of the men I liked in my life were intellectual, fairly introverted guys who had real power and did not need to show it. The kind of guy who is economical in his movement and does not fidget around. Anyway, you know my preference.
I have learned a lot of things here, and you are one of the posters who often add good content. On some level you understand women better than Roissy.
In contrast, many women keep coming back to trying to figure out just how high up in the alpha category Rossy truely is. Just how wet should they feel.
It’s pretty interesting — and amusing.
Nah, not at all. I don’t feel anything of that sort for most men, even the good looking or “alpha,” and especially not the kind of PUAs who congregate here. I suspect the same is true for Yours Truly, but I can only speak for myself.
Stylistically and personality-wise, I actually prefer yours to Roissy’s, and the writings of some other commenters (like Reggie who no longer posts here). I prefer a certain streak of “niceness” and “gentlemanliness” hardened by raw intelligence. Roissy’s teasing asshole blogger persona is often just annoying.
Anyway, I did not get here because I was attracted to the blogger, but because I was trying to figure out some things in my past, including way I fell in love for the second time. It’s part of my ongoing attempts at self-understanding, something I’ve been at since I was 15.
Yours truly 38 –
I didn’t actually mean you would want to go out with Roissy, all things considered. Rather that there’s an instinct to test. But I hear you.
And thanks for your compliment! It felt very nice.
Hope 39–
Thanks! Just when I least expected it. The “I actually prefer” was a bit backhanded, but I’ll happily take it anyway. 😀
How about “I much prefer”? Sounds better? I don’t try to be backhanded.
Pupu is checkmated. The game is over. 🙁
Hope 41–
Bingo! I had a hunch I could milk you for a tad more. *Big happy grin.”
Hugs Hope.
Are you over morning sickness yet?
These girls get corrupted by crowded areas — too many dreamy guys to crush on, and hard to pick just one. Like a little girl in the Chocolate Factory. For that matter, big colleges also spoil them, almost right after they set foot on campus.
You have to make sure she was raised and plans to stay in a lower-density place, where you’re the obvious choice for her. Just stay out of the Mountain Time Zone.
Pupu 42–
No no Pupu. But that’s very cute and all. *Kiss kiss* Happy now?
You know perfectly well that Eternal Ingenue’s don’t stay checkmated. They just bounce up and start a new game as though nothing whatsoever had happened. If reminded — it’s oh THAT?! — and then scene shift to show the utter inconsequence of that. It’s right back to “catch me if you can”.
Maybe they bounce back with the same main squeeze and or maybe it’s a new one, but the one thing we can be sure of is that no checkmate ever sticks.
Agnostic 44–
Just stay out of the Mountain Time Zone.
You’ve called dibs on the whole lot of it, have you?
Aww dougjnn. ^^
I don’t seem to get morning sickness, or maybe not yet. I get a little dizzy at night, after I exercise, but other than that I’m not throwing up or anything.
Pupu is checkmated. The game is over. 🙁
Nah. Men will always respond to cute puppy eyes, a bit of pouting and the little noises girly girls make. I think the Eternal Ingenue being discussed is just a particular kind of Ingenue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenue_(stock_character)
12 juggler:
Only the most desirable? Or only the most unavailable, unattainable, the biggest challenge?
A distinction without a difference.
Yours Truly
“@yours truly- Do you live in the Netherlands, Belgium or Germany?”
Yes, why?
Do you mind telling me which country?
You mentioned in another post that average woman is 5’8 and the average man is 6’2 in your country.
They make me want to give up on men and just find a girlfriend.
Next you’ll be threatening to move to Canada! ;D
Well, I really like Montreal.
hope saidStylistically and personality-wise, I actually prefer yours to Roissy’s, and the writings of some other commenters (like Reggie who no longer posts here). I prefer a certain streak of “niceness” and “gentlemanliness” hardened by raw intelligence
I agree. Micheal K(?)comes across as a real sweetie as well.
Patrick K
I think
yours truly protesteth a little too much:
not the sort of person who really takes responsibility for his life.
define “taking responsibility for one’s life”.
rope a hope:
I prefer a certain streak of “niceness” and “gentlemanliness” hardened by raw intelligence.
guys, take note. if her insistence on prefering niceguys is not a lot of handwaving hot air, then hope represents an exceedingly small sliver of the female population. so niceness will get you far with her where it wouldn’t with about, oh, 99% of all attractive women. too bad she’s married. how convenient.
heh heh.
Roissy’s teasing asshole blogger persona is often just annoying.
persona?
Anyway, I did not get here because I was attracted to the blogger, but because I was trying to figure out some things in my past
and yet of all the places on the net you could spew your endless stream of useless repetitive boring navel-gazing self-help sloganeering, you chose my blog.
waz up wit dat, H?
Men will always respond to cute puppy eyes, a bit of pouting and the little noises girly girls make.
do i detect a hint of envious condescension?
yes, yes i do!
more useless tripe from you. men may always respond to girly girls (who are hot) but now with the teachings of game they can do so from a position of choice.
pupu pinepined:
Pupu is checkmated. The game is over.
if checkmating you is wrong, why does it feel so right?
djinn:
You know perfectly well that Eternal Ingenue’s don’t stay checkmated.
oh, i can think of one checkmate from which they can’t escape.
tick tock tick tock…
How many times do you think David Alexander will stop to masturbate while he’s reading it?
Actually reading this blog interferes with my masturbation habits. Coincidentally, reading this blog makes me chronically late for appointments and work…
Next you’ll be threatening to move to Canada! ;D
Me + College Degree = Ticket to Canada
chic trick:
I agree. Micheal K(?)comes across as a real sweetie as well.
yeah, but would you sleep with him?
don’t mind me, just keepin’ it real…
waz up wit dat, H?
It was mainly because of the commenters, many of whom don’t post here much if at all anymore. I used to read Rina’s blog daily until she password-protected it. I used to post there quite often, too, if you’ll remember.
do i detect a hint of envious condescension?
yes, yes i do!
more useless tripe from you. men may always respond to girly girls (who are hot) but now with the teachings of game they can do so from a position of choice.
Nope, it’s not envy, more like knowledge and understanding. Once again you read me incorrectly. I have always been very cutesy and girly girlish with men I love in private, so much so that it’s probably nausea-inducing if you knew the full extent of it.
But I don’t like to be cute or vulnerable around these parts. I like the intellectual insights, and I’d rather not be seen as flirtatious.
39: (like Reggie who no longer posts here)
Yeah, I miss Reggie! 🙁
So keep her guessing, keep her in the dark, and slowly over time she’ll fill in the blanks and begin imagining that YOUR love is the love she’s been waiting for.
Is it just me, or does this sound like so much passive aggressive bullshit? OMG what am I doing here? x_x
the Eternal Ingenue comes closest to embodying the essence of the perfect woman. And, unfortunately, she is also the most diffcult to tame.
Tame? Oh my God, roissy, you are so full of shit and drivel. Why am I even here then? Unlike Hope, I’m not here to “learn about women”. Oh no. My being here is akin to watching a mugging in progress and even though it disturbs you, you can’t take your eyes off it.
I hope that’s helpful.
21 chic noir:
Clio, darling why are you giving away female game to these men???
Simple: because she is a Goddess and you are not.
hth
chic trick:
I agree. Micheal K(?)comes across as a real sweetie as well.
yeah, but would you sleep with him?
don’t mind me, just keepin’ it real…
depends on what he looks like and if he and I can form some type of bond. If you, then I would prob marry him.
Tupac Chopra
🙁
why are you so mean to me?
This blog is a great piece of performance art. Roissy is a crazy bundle of contradictions — driven to misogyny by his desparate need for female attention, trying to negate his constant fear of rejection through cocky overconfidence, etc. — and cloaked by internet anonymity he has no fear of expressing them. (No putdown on the anon thing, we all are, I love how internet anonymity allows people to self-reveal). Since these are exaggerated versions of a lot of peoples’ insecurities around romance (mine too, I’ll confess), they’re fun to read. The battle of the sexes through the funhouse mirror.
I’d be curious as to the longest Roissy has ever sustained a romantic relationship. Just from the blog content, my guess would be one relationship lasting a year or so in which he got his ass kicked and his heart broken, plus a bunch of quickies lasting no longer than a few months.
58 Sara:
Why am I even here then? Unlike Hope, I’m not here to “learn about women”. Oh no. My being here is akin to watching a mugging in progress and even though it disturbs you, you can’t take your eyes off it.
You can go now……………….
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
….but I think you’ll stay.
61 chic noir:
why are you so mean to me?
Just givin’ props is all.
#21 Chic: “Clio darling why are you giving away female game to these men?”
I hate to admit it, but it was because I did a series of posts on male heartbreakers first, and the voice of conscience whispered to me that it wasn’t fair to do something like that unless I performed the same service for men WRT women.
So I thought about it a bit – the stories that male friends tole me about the women who made them miserable, and the women who seemed to make a habit of this kind of behaviour. Any man or woman can break a heart by accident (more or less) once or twice in their lifetimes. But I was trying to figure out what kind of person of either sex made it a way of life, the kind of person for whom it seemed to be emotionally necessary.
Clio
p.s. Who was that who was saying that the info about gold-diggers and neurotics is fairly well known? Take that back! My stereotypes are purely my own, and I owe them to nobody! [pouts adorably like an Eternal Ingenue FF; screeches with outrage like a NFF; decides to give a very long silent treatment to the guilty party like a WFF]
@clio-pouting and big eyes really work :happy:
opps
🙂
Men love playing the hero, and I enjoy leting them play that role. I just hate when they expect a couchie coupon for doing the right thing.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=coochie+coupon
hope and change:
It was mainly because of the commenters, many of whom don’t post here much if at all anymore.
this would be more believable if these commenters who supposedly brought you here were here at the time you started posting.
and even taking your claim at face value, it stands to reason that ultimately it was my posts which inspire and energize the commenters on this blog, and by extension energize YOU. posts without which you would have no platform or sounding board to plumb the depths of your exotic soul.
and, btw, you’ve commented directly to my posts a number of times, putting the lie to your claim that it was commenters who brought you here.
shall i dig up the evidence or are you ready to concede?
I used to read Rina’s blog daily until she password-protected it. I used to post there quite often, too, if you’ll remember.
actually, if i recall, you found rina through me. or at least, you were posting here before you started posting over there. well before, in fact.
capitalizing mq:
This blog is a great piece of performance art.
like a stiff wind blowing through your pants.
driven to misogyny by his desparate need for female attention, trying to negate his constant fear of rejection through cocky overconfidence, etc.
who’s gonna drive you hoooome… tonight
not me!
I’d be curious as to the longest Roissy has ever sustained a romantic relationship.
silly mq.
if i said 1 year, you’d reply “see, proves my point! he can’t sustain a relationship.”
if i said 5 years, you’d reply “wow, the breakup of such a serious relationship is what turned him into a wimmin hater!”
if i said 10 years, you’d reply “damn, the divorce must’ve cleaned him out. too bad it’s caused him to paint all women with the same brush.”
if i said 15 years and counting, you’d reply “she must be a low self-esteem abuse monger to put up with your hate.”
so you see, i can’t win by the rules you create in your head.
instead, i’ll just continue keeping you in the dark about my real life and rubbing your face in the ugly truths day in and day out and amusing myself with your stalinist remote psychological diagnosis of my state of mind and your inability to PUSH AWAY FROM THE ROISSY which you so dearly secretly and guiltily can’t get enough of.
ps: would mq care for a wafer thin roissy?
“your inability to PUSH AWAY FROM THE ROISSY which you so dearly secretly and guiltily can’t get enough of.”
I’m not a regular commenter here, but I have been reading this off and on for a while. Reading this blog reminds me of when I was 18 and used to read cosmo, or why I read Andrea Dworkin or check up on the crazy Kirk Cameron god shit: There are people in the world that I do not agree with and I fail to understand how they reach the place that they are at so I am drawn through morbid curiosity to see their thought process.
I have a quibble with Clio. Nearly all the Dancers I have known, have not fallen into the Igenue territory, rather the tough girl, artistic athlete (I’m talking Ballet and Modern Dance).
Feet HURT. All the time. Constant hunger pains, lots of sore muscles, it hurts like say, being a sem-pro to pro athlete (football, soccer, basketball). Knees and ankles going arthritic, or blown out, by age 22 or so.
Most of the Dancers I knew were “nice” but reserved, rather “tough” in their appraisal of things, and with a steady guy for years. Their lives were chaotic and uncertain, so they chose fairly steady though macho guys, who would not cheat, and provide support. Athletic but not overly so. All their mates were tall though. Quite tall.
The women were feminine mind you, but not the girl Ingenue that Clio describes. Most of the guys around them at the job were either gay or womanizers, and work itself could be brutal. One girl I knew who was 16, I thought at first was 22 or 23.
I suppose the words I would describe them with were “matter of fact.” They liked their jokes though. They would crack them all the time.
Your constant insults and put-downs are making me strangely more affectionate toward you, Roissy…hmmm…well, that and my need to procrastinate while working late yet again.
LOL, 69 is true too.
On 70, I’m dating a dancer right now, and there’s a big difference between the ones who make a serious paying career of it (who are the heavy-duty athletes you describe) and the hobbyists who have it as an artsy sideline, who can be pretty athletic but fit the artist stereotype more closely.
this would be more believable if these commenters who supposedly brought you here were here at the time you started posting.
Reggie wasn’t, but Rina was around then. Defining the Alpha Male was the first post I read (linked to by The Fourth Checkraise), and she commented in that entry, as well as some before that. I found The Fourth Checkraise through some meanderings on reddit.
and, btw, you’ve commented directly to my posts a number of times, putting the lie to your claim that it was commenters who brought you here.
shall i dig up the evidence or are you ready to concede?
I never denied that you were interesting, or that your writing is interesting. I rather like human interest stories, and I always have. Your blog (was) like an ongoing nonfiction novel, and really the primary reason for that is one of your posts about a failed love relationship you are.
Like Peanut said, it may be a “morbid curiosity.” I used to read the journals of women like Alexis Massie (pre-Google days, now her writing can only be found in Wayback Machine) and Sara Astruc, fascinated by their lives which they described through their writing.
68 roissy
so you see, i can’t win by the rules you create in your head.
instead, i’ll just continue keeping you in the dark about my real life and rubbing your face in the ugly truths day in and day out and amusing myself with your stalinist remote psychological diagnosis of my state of mind and your inability to PUSH AWAY FROM THE ROISSY which you so dearly secretly and guiltily can’t get enough of.
Good grief!
74 Sara:
Good grief!
You need something wet in your mouth.
Know this girl all too well.
I find it easier to just break off all contact 😉
Er, in reference to the above comments about athleticism in dancers: I agree. But did I say anything about dancing at all? I don’t see it in my original posts. Or are you referring to something in a comment rather than in my own writing on the subject?
Clio
76 GVChamp
I like your sly little smile. How did you make that? ENTJ you say? So, you’re a personality type one. We’re true opposites, me being an eight. Breaking off contact….may be the way to go.
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeOne.asp
75 Tupac
You need something wet in your mouth.
Sex. The answer to everything. Well, in a way you’re right.
Fact: There’s no such thing as the “perfect” woman and every woman exhibits certain of these traits.
Depending on what you’re looking for though, I roissy gives good advice overall on how to deal with these things (stuff most of us have to learn the hard way, sadly).
“Do you mind telling me which country?”
The Netherlands. And average 25yo, older people are shorter, of course.
“define “taking responsibility for one’s life”.”
Someone who takes responsibility for his life does not spend too much time complaining about the card he was dealt but rather at what he can do with the cards he has.
Hope, you misunderstood Pupu. As far as the lack of “intellectual content” aspect of Pupu’s comments that you subtly criticized, Pupu could not defend herself except for saying that beauty is in the eyes of beholder, and the same is true with meaning. In communication, some prefer using more words, some less, some none. As long as the message is delivered to the intended receiver with minimal error, the choice of delivery is a matter of preference. Unlike you, Pupu finds writing long passages exceptionally hard. Symbols and equations are much simpler to use and to comprehend for Pupu. Cognitively, Hope and Pupu are different people. But as far as sincerity goes, we are quite the same. To celebrate this exceptionally long message Pupu has managed to put together, and also to add to its length, please allow Pupu to quote Jane Eyre 😉
“I am not talking to you now through the medium of custom, conventionalities, nor even of mortal flesh: it is my spirit that addresses your spirit; just as if both had passed through the grave, and we stood at God’s feet, equal — as we are!”
And is it true, that devils end up like you?
Something safe for the picture frame…
Special relativity says “tick tock tick tock” can be slowed down by moving faster. Pupu is determined to become a fast woman!
lmao @ the Roissy haters
Do you all have any idea of how fucking pathetic you are? Wanting SO desparately to bring him down a peg or two all the while being drawn to him for the EXACT reason you claim to disagree with what he has to say.
You all are completely and totally proving, while at the same time completely missing, what it is he is transmitting into your thick-ass craniums.
I would SO love to gizz on each of your faces. Male or female…
[…] Local dating blogger Roissy in D.C. continues his series in “how to handle femme fatales.” A tip: The sweeter and more innocent a girl seems, the greater the likelihood she has been […]
85 Kick a bitch
I think you’re missing many of the posters’ point: This blog is like a really bad car accident. You can’t help but look out of morbid curiosity, but that doesn’t mean you want to be involved in the wreck.
It’s kind of like staring at a severely handicapped person so you can figure out what disease they have. You’re not trying to bring them down a peg, just studying them.
Sure there are Roissy “haters”, but they strike me more as people out to “save” him. Personally, I don’t believe in putting the effort into changing adults. I would resent someone trying to do it to me and I believe it’s rarely successful. Plus, the scene of a cleaned up accident is not as interesting…
Pupu is a big fan of Roissy’s blog the devil himself!
“This last will often mean walking away from her never looking back.”
priceless…and hand in hand with the russian quote. when they know, not see through your faux willingness to walk away at any time…they will respect you….and remain interested.
As a contemporary of Don Henley and Glenn Frey (is anyone on this blog familiar with the assisted-living group The Eagles?), they nailed it in their second song, before all the fame: desperadoes only want the ones they can’t get.
–Impecunious recovering victim of an Eternal Ingenue, unfortunately with aspects of Goldigger as well.
90 retired urologist:
As a contemporary of Don Henley and Glenn Frey (is anyone on this blog familiar with the assisted-living group The Eagles?), they nailed it in their second song, before all the fame: desperadoes only want the ones they can’t get.
*blush*
–Impecunious recovering victim of an Eternal Ingenue, unfortunately with aspects of Goldigger as well.
But remember what the boys also said:
and I found out a long time ago
what a woman can do to your soul
oh but she can’t take you anywhere
you didn’t already know how to go…
@91
Yeah, my bad. Shot of courage?
I wonder if this Pupu, with her concise but elusive comments, is a Muse, sister to our Clio. Euterpe, perhaps, or Erato? The latter seems probable, given the focus of this blog. But…
I think Pupu is an Oracle. Perhaps even the Delphic Oracle. She inhales the sacred fumes, then comes and gifts us with her cryptic haiku-zen elliptical pronouncements, leaving us enlightened and puzzled both.
Who is this Pupu? She should reveal herself, I think. Is she a Muse? An Oracle? Roosh or VK in drag?
This blinkered mortal stands before you, Pupu, and pleads. Who are you? Who are you today?
As years unfurl, they take their toll on he likes of Don Henley. One day he flies into a Michael Jackson falsetto “don’t worry girl, I’ll stand by youuuuu!” and another day he stalks his ex-wife, mumbling something for “forgiveness, forgiveness.”
But men get lost sometimes.
93 PatrickH:
I wonder if this Pupu, with her concise but elusive comments, is a Muse, sister to our Clio.
My sources say “yes.”
Who is this Pupu? She should reveal herself, I think. Is she a Muse? An Oracle?
All I know is she better be hot.
I would SO love to gizz on each of your faces. Male or female…
Are you homosexual? That would explain both your passionate attraction to Roissy and your desire to have sex with other male commenters. Given that your name indicates you mostly just want to beat women, it seems that sexually you’d be more drawn to men. It’s OK, you can relax and admit it. You’ll find no judgement here.
mine truly:
And average 25yo
you’re a little too old for me.
Someone who takes responsibility for his life does not spend too much time complaining about the card he was dealt but rather at what he can do with the cards he has.
you have me confused with david alexander.
feel free to present evidence from my blog posts that i complain about the cards i was dealt.
(this should be fun)
pupu parried:
Pupu is determined to become a fast woman!
candy is dandy but liquor is quicker.
~kiss~
Are you homosexual? That would explain both your passionate attraction to Roissy and your desire to have sex with other male commenters. Given that your name indicates you mostly just want to beat women, it seems that sexually you’d be more drawn to men. It’s OK, you can relax and admit it. You’ll find no judgement here.
it’s all about the dominance fucktard. do you think i would actually let you touch my genitals?
pfffft… right, fat chance
oh, and the phrase “kick a bitch” is profoundly metaphorical. you think this would be obvious but i guess not.
now hold still and don’t you DARE close your eyes
“mine truly:
And average 25yo”
You silly man!
“you have me confused with david alexander.
feel free to present evidence from my blog posts that i complain about the cards i was dealt.
(this should be fun)”
I admit that it is not any particular line, just an intuitive impression. You’ll probably think I’m silly for that.
How do you get to type the bold and italic stuff by the way?
mine truly:
You silly man!
so you’re younger than 25? now we can talk.
I admit that it is not any particular line, just an intuitive impression.
evidence presented: zilch.
spanked!
You’ll probably think I’m silly for that.
no, just a liar.
How do you get to type the bold and italic stuff by the way?
it’s called HTML, try it some time.
Roissy,
Who said a girl needed to provide hard evidence not to date a man?
You are also too dangerous, and though there is no evidence for that, you also won’t deny that.
Jest testing this
This should stand out
yours and mine truly deeply madly:
Who said a girl needed to provide hard evidence not to date a man?
no one. but that’s not what you claimed.
quote:
“Someone who takes responsibility for his life does not spend too much time complaining about the card he was dealt but rather at what he can do with the cards he has.”
i asked for evidence that i have written anything resembling your claim that i bitch about the cards life dealt me. (and this is presuming i got dealt bad cards, a false presumption i should note). you presented… your intuition. i helpfully reminded you that your intuition was no substitute for hard evidence. you then evaded my spanking of you by misrepresenting your original slander.
if i were an impolite little boy i might say “typical woman!”. but i’m too gentlemanly for that.
in sum: i just schooled your ass.
speaking of asses, how is yours? if it’s a nice round ass you should consider submitting it for my 2008 perfect ass contest.
btw, a woman’s intuition is often just a cover for wishful thinking.
You are also too dangerous, and though there is no evidence for that, you also won’t deny that.
does the devil deny his nature?
Ah, Roissy, when I said what I meant with a responsible man, I did not mean to imply that you were the polar opposite of that. I’m sorry if it came across that way.
I really do enjoy reading your blog and the group of people you host, even if some elements are a bit rough for my tastes, I appreciate what you do.
it’s a nice round ass you should consider submitting it for my 2008 perfect ass contest.
I have a hard enough time getting you of my back as it is, LOL!
Last time I gave a ladies’ man a picture over the internet he left our guild because I did not want to sleep with him. I have learned my lessons, cowboy!
Last time I gave a ladies’ man a picture over the internet he left our guild because I did not want to sleep with him.
Oh, I didn’t know you played games online. What do you play?
Join the guild I’m in for Warhammer? 🙂
@ Yours Truly
if you want to quote someone, use the blockquote tag:
http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_blockquote.asp
Not anymore, but I used to. It is pretty time consuming though, so nowadays I only play those little games for when you have half an hour to waste. I have to pass exams and want to spend time on my friends and hobbies too, so big games had to go. A friend of mine who is like a cousin to me plays Warhammer too. You can also paint little puppets for that, right?
How is your pregnancy going by the way?
It’s going well. Thanks for asking!
I play online games to spend time with my husband. They are a waste of time, but then, so is writing comments on a blog. 😛
Glad to hear you are feeling goog 🙂
That’s a very good point, but at least Roissy here is not demanding that I be online at a certain time.
yours in lies:
I have a hard enough time getting you of my back as it is, LOL!
correction: you climbed up my back first. i responded.
if you don’t like me coming down on you with the fury of a helldemon you only need do one thing:
stop lying.
guild
i wouldn’t be a member of any faggoty nerd guild that would want me.
Last time I gave a ladies’ man a picture over the internet he left our guild because I did not want to sleep with him.
i’m not asking for a pic of your face. i’m suggesting you send in a pic of your ass for committee consideration in the 2008 perfect ass contest.
I have learned my lessons, cowboy!
before you assume that i would want to fuck you i’ll need you to answer a few questions.
how tall are you?
how much do you weigh?
how old are you?
which hollywood celebrity do you most resemble?
do you do anal?
106 roissy
if i were an impolite little boy i might say “typical woman!”. but i’m too gentlemanly for that.
Gentlemanly? Give me a break! This is why I’m so amused by those who actually take you seriously. Carry on! I’m digging this.
I was just joking with you, Roissy.
You see, the loss of cool you display is why I do not usually prefer extraverted men.
I’m a 2 foot, 38 lb leprechaun :p
287 years and look like the elves in the santa movies :p
That last question is too rude even for a scoundrel such as yourself to ask.
yours truly back for more:
I was just joking with you, Roissy.
backpedal, thy name is yours truly.
You see, the loss of cool
you misspelled “the joyous hate”
I’m a 2 foot, 38 lb leprechaun :p
287 years and look like the elves in the santa movies :p
next!
That last question is too rude even for a scoundrel such as yourself to ask.
that’s a yes.
Those whose morbid fascination leads them to poke and prod at an asshole hardly have grounds for indignation when they wind up shit-stained.
it’s all about the dominance fucktard.
in other words, you’re one of those guys that has other men suck his dick and then says he’s not gay because he’s not doing the sucking? Ummm, yeah, OK, got it. Not a Republican Senator or anything, are you?
119 MQ
Not a Republican Senator or anything, are you?
Come on, MQ. Maybe he only has a wide stance.
Sincere thanks for the post, Mr roissy. It’s uncannily accurate on a many details of my one serious relationship. Especially:
You really want to be wary of any woman who overly romaticizes her quest for love. She is probably what Clio described: A woman who will pick you apart for minor faults in the most gratingly passive-aggressive way possible, and finally leave you on the flimsiest pretext, often bounding straight into the arms of another man without even a pause for common courtesy.
True dat.
MQ –
in other words, you’re one of those guys that has other men suck his dick and then says he’s not gay because he’s not doing the sucking?
You are betraying your lack of deep understanding of human sexuality.
If the reason the man getting sucked permits that is because he’s screwing another man’s wife, and the wife is doing it in front of her husband and enjoys seeing her lover utterly dominate her submissive husband, then no, the lover is not being even remotely gay.
Just the opposite in fact. It’s an extremely dominant and masculine act. I guarantee you that “kick a bitch” had this sort of thing in mind.
The husband on the other hand is a different story. That too isn’t clear cut gay necessarily but it’s certainly submissive and a lot closer to gay. He certainly could be gay or bi.
Masuline = 1) lust for females, 2) sexual dominance. Feminine = 1) craving sexual desire from worthy men; and 2) sexual submission in the moment to worthy men
This was something the Romans very much understood. They actually spent a lot more time talking about male dominace as the hallmark of masculinity, rather than the object of desire being preferentially female, though both were involved.
Men who want to sexually submit to a woman, and women who want to sexually dominate a man are intermediate cases, but still each are in the hetero camp, if not as far into it. I’ll leave it at that for now, but there’s much more that I could say.
So masuline vs. feminine consits of determining 1) object of desire; 2) dominance vs submission.
pully 120 –
A woman who will pick you apart for minor faults in the most gratingly passive-aggressive way possible, and finally leave you on the flimsiest pretext, often bounding straight into the arms of another man without even a pause for common courtesy.
All kinds of things can create the excuse for picking apart. There’s also extremly little cultural inhibition placed on women today for doing so in relatinships or marriages.
The MOTIVATION for doing so is that she isn’t getting wet enough down there. It’s easy to say it’s because you aren’t being good enough in the bedroom, and the mechanics of that are a factor, but the overall big thing is yourg gestalt amount of male charisma or sexiness. Think oak tree but playful and confident. Think bend and flexible but don’t cave. Think avoid arguments but don’t agree she’s right all the time to do so.
You will note that our culture is telling you to do the opposite much of the time.
I’ve only talked about what you can readily change. If your tall, good looking, are big downstairs, muscular, going from success to success at work, and lots of other girls are always flirting and panting after you, you will not have to pay too much attention to the small stuff.
But lots of stuff makes a difference.
78 Sara I
The sly smile is formed by having six hours of sleep yet enjoying the company 😉
The breaking off contact was necessary considering the level of mixed signals and the lack of game on my part. I can’t fight out of the LJBF trap, especially the Femme Fatale throwing out mixed signals part getting mixed in.
Just no damn point.
backpedal, thy name is yours truly
I played with the devil, I got myself burned.
Now I sit on the blisters, a lesson was learned.
:$
121 Dougie
If your tall, good looking, are big downstairs, muscular, going from success to success at work, and lots of other girls are always flirting and panting after you, you will not have to pay too much attention to the small stuff.
My business took me to a redneck party last night. (Yes, parties are my business….one of them.) If you’re a redneck, the success part is not necessary but being able to hold your liquor and line dance becomes paramount.
Sara
Yeah. I hear you.
[…] I read this the other day & it struck a cord http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/how-to-handle-femmes-fatales-part-2a/ […]
121 – dougjnn: You confuse your definition of “masculine” with “heterosexual”. Enjoying a blow job by another guy is gay, regardless of whether you fuck his wife afterwards or not.
[…] what I do to battle myself and my normal tell tell response is re-read How to handle femmes fatales it’s my inspiration to keep strong and move on from my bete position. I want S in my life but […]
was at the national cathedral last night… (actually in her car outside of a bar)
she was from a broken home (“live with my mother”)
tonguing down some random dude (“have a boyfriend but… whatever”)
…she was always giving me shit when i talked to other chicks in the bar (“THAT your girlfriend?”)
4 hours from eye contact to penis-in-hand… she even bought me a beer
your words ring true…
…not sure that this turbocharged life will truly lead to happiness, though… just more expectations
think it would only lead to happiness if you couldn’t generate it for yourself in the first place…
suppose — fucking happy > living happy
seeing the matrix ends only with infinite analysis.
[…] a lawyer. See: Eternal Ingenue and Amazonian Alpha. The paradox of femininity is that it is often both the ultrafeminine and […]
…or…. maybe she just doesn’t like you? Instead of playing games or putting people into categories, why don’t you find someone whose company you actually… ENJOY?????
If you need ego boost get if from somewhere else not women.
[…] f. an Eternal Ingenue? […]
[…] quoting Roissy “The paradox of femininity is that it is often, both the ultrafeminine and ultramasculine women who have racked up big numbers of men.” Perhaps in Japan their families […]
[…] jerks. Why? Because they can be. It’s similar to an assertion I recall longtime commenter and sprightly feminine ingenue Alias Clio made, which went something along the lines of “Women don’t fall for the […]
[…] friends. Indigo Girl is the classic Eternal Ingenue. She is accustomed to getting her way with men, and she fumes when she doesn’t. She will […]
[…] like you’ve got an ingenue on your hands. This type of girl will coordinate the attentions of multiple men in order to ensure she gets […]
This literally described my ex girfriend to a tee. I mean seriously it was like reading a brief history of my last year of hell with that whore.
“You’ll know if you are dating a potential Ingenue if you meet her girlfriends and they are all overprotective and annoyingly sassy cougars-in-training. The Eternal Ingenue HATES competition from attractive girls her own age.”
Classic gold my friend!
[…] Superficially confident. Used to getting her way with men. Weaponized femininity. A classic eternal ingenue. Likely had a boyfriend somewhere else and a couple of mother hens in attendance to supervise […]
Aw, it’s so cute when y’all pretend to have dated lots of women, or even a woman at all.
[…] beta or two wrapped around her finger at any given time. You could accurately describe her as an eternal ingenue. She is always complaining about meeting men, yet she hardly goes a day without a […]
Jezebel, wow, what a rebellious name to have on a site where whores are frequently psychologically dissected. I’m sure it gives you a sense of power back to say to the world “World, I am a Jezebel. Judge me how you wish, or join me in appreciating a smarmy expression of uncreative irony, but I am what I am (whether you really are or not) and I want to assert my rebellious presence”.
I bet you get some power back when you suck a new cock every weekend too. Way to show em, Jez..
you found me out. Im currently in Canada getting more. Im a slut okay. Thanks to women like me good men never marry. lol