Younger man game gets plenty of attention and analysis, but in comparison older man game seems to get the short shrift. The principles of pickup are fairly universal — female hypergamy operates on all men, of all age groups — but some of the tactical details will change if your age is significantly younger or older than the woman you are seducing. With that in mind, here’s a comment pulled from the Nick Hoss PUA website:
Another time to possibly go indirect: when you’re significantly older. A direct opener would force her to make a snap judgement, while indirect may give you time to demonstrate high value.
In theory, this sounds right. Direct game does theoretically corner women into making reflexive snap judgments. If you come on strong, a woman is not going to have the chance to enjoy the feeling of flirtation building to an anticipated denouement. She will revert to her default female filtering algorithm which activates at a much lower threshold if all she has to go on are your approach mechanics and plainly visible SMV irregularities such as might be apparent in a large age discrepancy. (Most older men, out of cowardice or lack of compensating attributes, do not hit on significantly younger women, which conditions younger women into expecting older men to comport themselves like bland, asexual lumps. The inverse is also true — it’s rare for, say, 18 year old men to hit on 28 year old women, and for similar reasons.)
But it can be argued, theoretically as well, that older men using indirect game on younger women feeds into women’s expectations of harmless avuncular daddy figures chatting them up with nary a sexual thought in their minds. In other words, if you are an older man hitting on a much younger woman, you have to be more careful about the danger of indirect game spiraling into breezy, chit chatty pointlessness. You’ll know you’ve failed when you swerve into more sexually tinged banter and she acts surprised and indignant.
So again we come to a pro and con list for direct vs indirect game that applies equally to older men as to younger men. Direct game circumvents the risk of LJBF prejudice, at the potential cost of activating insta-screens in women. Indirect game allows for cunning guidance of women’s emotions, at the potential cost of misjudged intentions.
Enough of theory. What about applied seduction? In reality, women make snap judgments before you even open your mouth. Your body language can be alpha or beta, and women subconsciously pick up those nonverbal signals of your mate quality. If you are significantly older or younger than your prey, your body language cannot, in any way, exude defeatism. Both the younger man hitting on an older woman and the older man hitting on the younger woman must seem in control of their worlds. Large age differences amplify the need for compensating attractiveness cues.
My gut feeling is that indirect game, as a contributing variable in approach-lay ratio, is the better choice overall for the typical scenarios involving older men and much younger women (10+ years younger). By typical scenarios, I mean non-nightclub environments. Women — especially prime age women in the 18-24 year old bracket — possess very strong preconceived notions about how older men will act around them. A direct, choose or lose, style of approach may violate their preconceptions so thoroughly that they respond by shutting down.
But that is just gut feeling. Any of you older men or pickup pros who have experience hitting on significantly younger women using direct and/or indirect game are encouraged to leave your opinions in the comments section. Award-winning comments will be highlighted in a future post.
Hey CH: Have you ever commented on Robert Chambers?
“You can improve your close rate immensely by refusing to wait for approach invitations.”
This is surprising to me. Why do you say that? Seems like you’d close a higher percentage when you’re starting with an interested girl.
He meant the total number, not success number.
Wrong. Obviously you were supposed to remark on Akin.
Living in a city full of flaming liberals, younger women treat me like I’m not even human. It’s really offensive. When I go somewhere that is politically more conservative, young women treat me with respect and courtesy.
I find it amusing that political conservatives are much nicer to a guy with a ponytail than political liberals.
Well that makes perfect sense.
Liberal women tend to be sluttier, so they’re probably used to emanating that vibe and getting hit on by anything with a penis looking for a quick lay. They also tend to be pickier in how a guy looks because they have more masculine brains.
Conservative women are nicer to you because they assume that you’re not going to hit on them. At your age, it can be assumed that you are already married, with 2 kids and one on the way.
That would make it even worse. Conservative young women should have no illusions that older men are going to be compliant cowards and not be interested. But you have shown why it’s important that the indirectness not last long.
Liberal = ‘ho… you got that right.
I’ll bet they treat you better than they treat older women.
Well, we could start with getting rid of the ponytail…
lose the ponytail. Who are you,Betty from Riverdale?
By the by,women who are “liberal” are liberal not because they are nicer or better,Its quite the opposite, Theyre status seeking cunts;so you’d expect them to be cuntish!!
Successfully hitting on 18-24yos is far easier in my mid-30s than it was when I was 18 or even 20something. Though I cheat by using dating sites where both of us already know what we’re there for and so I can be very direct. Once that context is established it’s simple to maintain it when meeting in person. I would find it much harder to segue into that shit if I met them in sailing class.
When I hit 40 I may have to work harder – that seems to be the red line for them.
Girls like older guys. No not from another generation but =~ 10 years is obvious and without socialization is really what nature wants.
Early 30s men who cannot make it work with any girl starting at least in the early 20s makes me think they must be short, pudgy and have friar baldness.
I was too young to take the hint nature was trying to tell me early on, but when I was a senior in high school girls seemed like work. Yet I once ran into an 8th grade girl on my way home with my bike which started as some misunderstanding I don’t need to get into. It was clear she was interested in talking to me afterwards. She was not the dregs either. She was on the cusp of incipient hotness about a minute or two before you take the pizza out of the oven. I talked to girls, but it was the first time I felt like I was being followed.
There is another observation I make now where I am with a younger married couple. He is 26 and his wife a year or two older certainly seeks to engage me. Yet several girls much younger who are daughters of the larger social group, who are about 14 , have an obvious crush on him.
The only ones who seem to know this today are pimps at the bus station.
Co-ed education creates the illusion that you should go after girls your own age. What does your instinct tell you let alone theirs?
It’s an older man’s duty to rob the cradle if for no other reason than aging feminazis hate, hate, HATE it.
Indirect but not for long. Example used on a college student yesterday walking in the same direction,
Me: Where is ABC Restaurant?
Her: I don’t actually know
Me: You should, it’s the best place to eat here, so they tell me
Her: I’m a poor student so I haven’t had the chance yet in life to eat at a nice restaurant.
Me: Yes, but a female poor student and someone like you would be asked by men, making her financial status irrelevant
That got a conversation going.
My current main fb is 11 years younger than me. However, I’m not sure my game (mostly direct) would count because I look a lot younger than I actually am. So I’d be interested to hear from other guys who actually look older to see which one works better, since I’m not gonna look young forever.
Here is a scenario that played itself out for me this year. I am 41, target is 23. Upon meeting, she was very abrasive with me, challenging, shit tests, wise cracks, you name it. I handled all of her barbs and her sarcasm with nary a flinch. This was back in January. After one such night of exchanging barb after barb, I was settling up my tab at the bar.
She came over to me and asked me, “Oh, are you leaving now?” I answered, “Why, do you want to come home with me and have sex?” She stopped dead, jaw agape. I continued on sorting out my bill, downed my drink and left.
After that, she was very hot and cold with me for several weeks, even a couple months I’d say.
I continued on unaffected, playing serious aloof game, mixed in with some push-pull during any subsequent encounters.
Then one night, she came up to me, she was all dolled up. She asked for my cell phone number. I gave it to her and she immediately sent me the following text while we were both in mixed company at the bar:
Her: “What are you doing later?”
Me. “Not sure, why?”
Her: “Will you spend some time with me? Do you live near here?”
Me: “Yes”
She then came up to me and said, “Yes you’ll spend some time with me or yes you live near here?”
“Yes I’ll spend some time with you and yes I live near here.”
I carried on drinking, somewhat less aloof. A while later she joined me for a couple, I bought her a couple shooters and we left together. I took her home and f*cked her brains out.
Hopefully there’s some game tactics in there that could help some guys on here, but mainly I rely on my height, my looks, and aloof, push-pull game mostly. I don’t over analyse game as I find it makes me operate a little less smoothly. I’ve bedded quite a few women who were substantially younger using this same tactic, but this particular one was the youngest at a nearly 18 year age gap.
Also depends on how much older you look. Some men can look 20 in their 40s.
Well, I am counting on that as I enter the higher numbers in my 30′s. As for looking like my 20′s, maybe not but still shockingly young looking. Of course, the end goal is a russian mail order bride but still, I want to have fun until then.
There are no longer such creatures. Once they got on the Internet for themselves, pirate copies of Sex and the City and Twilight taught them they can get younger men in perpetuity.
But at least they are not equalist feminists. It’s not ideology, just expectations you have to deal with.
Never pay a mail order bride site for correspondence because you are 100% guaranteed of her not being the one to read and respond to your letter. If you must, pay for a date. The prices are now in the $50 to $100 range for that date, but at least you wouldn’t have spent that amount receiving fake letters from a guy named Boris in the back room.
If the service demands that you pay for a certain number of letters first, call their bluff and so no and tell them why: that you are onto what the industry is doing. On the date, know that the interpreter gets $15 per hour because she has to give $5 per hour to the girl who often now wouldn’t be interested in meeting a foreigner for no hourly compensation.
Good girls know this scam is going on and are increasingly staying away from the agencies.
The salad days are over. All you guys who thought it was your backstop are wrong.
Feminism is spreading via pirated American films and it must be defeated fast because there will be nowhere to go in your 50s and 60s if it continues apace and American prosperity filters around the world.
Manosphere bloggers should work to put this industry out of business, mainly by taking their credit card processing abilities away from them. It’s almost entirely a fraud. Call Visa.
But, worse, this industry is making American men look like stupid fools. The hottest girls who speak English will dabble in helping work these scams because there is so much money for what amounts to a little fake letter writing or donating their photos to the scams for a monthly fee.
They can’t help but lose respect for western men.
The industry must die to save the reputation of western men.
ouch, I was mostly joking, but it is funny that this backstop is disappearing. There’s always Vietnam?
Now I’d just take vacations in Eastern Europe. You may be able to work something out with an agency there but face to face with concrete results, not “letters”. This should be nothing more than getting the correspondence going. If you have the time growing some balls and mingling will work. They will give you a free shot when they know you are not a local schlub especially the more provincial the area. Ask for directions all the time….
agreed. feminism is spreading like the plague…. south america is suffering from that too.. but , at least they try to look feminine.
asshole game still works wonders on this chicks for now, so i would not worry for now.
As a mid-40′s guy who chases girls in their 20′s and early 30′s, I’ve got a lot of experience in this area.
I generally work only night game (lounge-type bars, but also the occasional club). My style is fairly direct, especially later in the evening, when the only unattached girls are likely drunk and looking to hook up.
Basically, I open with the tried and true “Hi” and look to escalate quickly so that I’ve got a legitimate shot at a ONS within a few hours.
I’ve had pretty good success with this style, banging a good number of 6′s and 7′s that way, with a rare 8 thrown in for extra wood-inducing action.
My last girlfriend was 27, the one before that was 25 when I met her (I was early 40′s at the time), I’d rate both as high 7′s…
But I also find that I’m getting shot down more as each year passes, so clearly age is a factor to some of these chicks and my style may lose its effectiveness in the next several years.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that the ones who are much younger that I wind up dating longer term, seem to have daddy issues (from divorced home, much older father, or dad passed away when she was young, etc.). So, I think I’m attracting a specific subset of younger chick who wants an older guy to provide some kind of protection.
So, I guess on balance, I think that direct game is a better option overall, at least for the evening. I would caution, however, that being super cocky/smirky, etc. may not be as effective as just demonstrating plenty of confidence and DHV’s (dress well, a few comments about travel/lifestyle thrown in, etc.)
Maybe that’s because the Daddy issue types need to feel secure in addition to that all important tingle…
I’m 40 and look a little younger. I got a make out with a 20 year old and that’s been it. She was a clerk and I negged her and she loved it. Still seemed indirect though. But following that she was super flaky.
Thanks for this post. I always think blogs and books are talking about guys under 33. Cant wait to have more directed at older guys cause I loves the young girls don’t ya know.
Indirect game with a few surprisingly aggressive negs work best for me. But I always neg with a smile.
I’m 41 and usually date about 10+ years younger. I’ve found the times I was successful were almost all using direct game. Of course this could be because my indirect game isn’t up to par. It just seems with indirect I end up falling into the “breezy chit chatty pointlessness” CH warns about.
I second anonymous: indirect with fast escalation. Faster than she expects.
When an older man (38-48) opens a younger woman (24-28), she knows what he wants, even if he’s not direct. He conveys his intent by how suave is his tone, how assured are his transitions, and how well put-together he comes across overall. By that age, if you’re not capable of leading the conversation into interesting directions then you shouldn’t be hitting on younger girls.
At some point in the conversation she will bring up something personal, intimate, awkward or emotional for her. She’s trusting you to handle it with greater maturity than she’s capable of. That’s your one and only chance. If you don’t pounce on that one opening to insert yourself deeper into her world and her psyche, you’re chalked off as ball-less.
“At some point in the conversation she will bring up something personal, intimate, awkward or emotional for her. She’s trusting you to handle it with greater maturity than she’s capable of.”
That does happen a lot now that you mention it.
Very insightful and very good advice.
“If you don’t pounce on that one opening to insert yourself deeper into her world and her psyche, you’re chalked off as ball-less.”
How? Maybe an example or two would help.
At some point in the conversation she will bring up something personal, intimate, awkward or emotional for her. She’s trusting you to handle it with greater maturity than she’s capable of. That’s your one and only chance. If you don’t pounce on that one opening to insert yourself deeper into her world and her psyche, you’re chalked off as ball-less.
Example(s), please.
“Most older men, out of cowardice or lack of compensating attributes, do not hit on significantly younger women”
Don’t forget that you’ll immediately get labeled a “pedo” by the shrieking FemiNazis.
Like Anon above said: Indirect but not for long. Although, Krauser goes for the younger women and I’d say his game is pretty direct.
It’s funny, but I get plenty of looks from 18 yo’s (hell, even the 17 and 16 yo sisters that live a few homes down from me) at my mid 30s age. It does help that I don’t look my age, of course. Plus, there’s a difference between being, say, 35 and knowledgeable of pop culture and being 35 and still listening to GnR or early 90s hip-hop. I don’t dress like a teen, but someone in my late 20s. And I stay in good enough shape — you don’t need to have 8% bf nowadays with the way the younger guys are carrying that extra tire around. But older (30 and over) men shouldn’t be scared to hit on 18 yo women, especially if you are of significantly higher status than her. Case in point: I have a twitter follower who once complained about having to walk to work when “old pedos” were trying to talk to her. She’s 17. When I asked how old they were she said “I don’t know in their 30s?” Meanwhile, almost all her tweets are about how she wants to bang Bradley Cooper (37) or eminem (39).
Hmm, I wonder what the difference is between Bradley Cooper and “old pedos,” it’s probably not being in shape or being obviously constrained by an old ball and chain, eh?
Case in point: I have a twitter follower who once complained about having to walk to work when “old pedos” were trying to talk to her. She’s 17. When I asked how old they were she said “I don’t know in their 30s?” Meanwhile, almost all her tweets are about how she wants to bang Bradley Cooper (37) or eminem (39).
“Old pedos” = omegas aged 30+. “silver foxes” = alphas guys aged 30+.
There are plenty of 18 y.o.s who would get banged by Mel Gibson.
Hot/not is the question. Only. Always has been.
I think some of the “older men hitting on younger women are creepy” thing that you’ll get from women isn’t so much about pushing an agenda as it is about projection and an inability to understand that men and women think differently.
Because women are programmed to seek men who are our age or older, as women age, most of us begin to see men younger than ourselves as inappropriate targets. Personally, any man more than 3 or 4 years younger than I am just looks like a little boy to me. So what happens is women assume that men feel the same way, or decide that they *should* feel the same way.
Not that you shouldn’t ignore the harpy shrieks. I’m just positing that the harpies may just be hamsters with megaphones.
(For the record, as long as everybody is a consenting adult, I don’t think there’s anything “creepy” about older men seeking younger women.)
“So what happens is women assume that men feel the same way,”
That’s a great point. I remember being a little surprised that someone fifteen years older than me was interested, (eleven and thirteen had been my previous experience) but then a man twenty years older made fifteen years seem like not a big deal. Both men are very likeable, but that’s it. Now, when I was hit on by a man in his seventies on an online dating site, I was like, this has GOT to be a joke. It wasn’t!!!
I love the infectious enthusiasm of younger guys, and older guys who can still occasionally tap into that are the best of both worlds. If you like dogs, puppies are a lot of fun, but an older one has matured and learned to protect the home.
I think the significance of the age gap has more to do with stage than biological age. I tend to feel that younger men with older women are being taken advantage of (unless the man is very relationship savvy), just as a very young girl with an older man might be (unless he is looking to “settle down”:), although I recognize the younger woman/older man is the ideal correlation for the majority of people.
I did somewhat okay in my 20′s, but I never started filling out until my early 30′s, and I likely looked quite young. I have quite an angular jaw and strong chin, so I probably looked somewhat awkward back then. Through my 30′s though, my look has changed as I’ve filled out, and I suppose I grew into my face. I still have occasional bouts with self esteem issues, but on the whole I do quite well with the ladies, better than ever in fact at 41, as I’m now at 6′ 2″ 200 lbs and I’ve always walked everywhere and got a lot of exercise. I still have virtually all of my hair too, and a decent job, so I don’t do too badly, considering I often don’t try very hard and I do live in a difficult city known for its stuck up bitches.
I’m curious, what city do you live in that has all of these stuck up girls?
what city do you live in?
I don’t live in a city. I live in a more countrified wealthy surburban area north of NYC(Bedford) and have 2 other houses in other areas. There are no Negroes in any of these places. And I never have any problems with females So I’m curious where all of this female nastiness is taking place.
[O]lder men using indirect game on younger women feeds into women’s expectations of harmless avuncular daddy figures chatting them up with nary a sexual thought in their minds.
A beta “daddy figure” might conjure “nary a sexual thought,” but a proper father figure — the template for a (male or female) child’s conception of alpha — is not asexual so much as protosexual. “[W]omen’s expectations of harmlessness” is a function of beta, not a function of age. Older men, and the experience signified by their elder status, are the opposite of “harmless” — unless we’re talking about nursing home residents here.
Age further indicates “harm” by the fact that men naturally grow more alpha through the trials and errors of youth. A young woman’s peers simply have not seen enough tail to know how to handle it, much less potentially abuse it, and for all of youth’s advantages, experience cannot be faked.
“Direct game” is for peppy strivers eager to learn from their errors because mistakes make a man. They become inured to rejection and percentage games once they feel the thrill of their first jackpot, and they build on the thrill to increase their hit rates. Indirect game is not just an advanced paradigm made possible by maturity, mastery, and confidence, it eventually becomes the only game in town for men with any sense of dignity.
To chase a skirt directly is to put pussy on a pedestal. The more you directly try, the more you satisfy her inner princess, the more you are playing into her frame. Often that suffices, particularly with 45º sluts (halfway to horizontal). Older men who understand the counterproductive danger of inflating a girl’s already overblown esteem develop methods of misdirection to signal attraction without confirming her ego. It’s not that hard with the bubbleheads. With sophisticated women who can consciously sense what’s going on? The game’s the thing.
The problem is, for a wallflower beta attempting to elevate his technique and confront his fear, only a direct effort will break him out of bad habits and give him a taste of what’s possible. For the uninitiated, indirect game and no game appear to be equivalents on the surface. So the counsel to “eliminate your desire” sounds to them like “nothing ventured, nothing gained.” But the tingle is the ultimate arbiter of effectiveness, and just as a woman cannot observe indirect game but rather involuntarily feels it, nobody but the mark herself detects the private tingle. Direct game is best played as a finishing move, not an opener. The hammer comes down once she is positioned over the target. “I have you right where I want you.”
But how do you teach vibe and spontaneity? You don’t. Direct game has its zealots because it is just above minimally effective and because it is teachable. It is quantifiable, it is itemizable. Do X to produce Y and to capture Z. Direct game is science. Indirect game is art. Methodical men require methodology. Artists require freedom.
Matt
I’d say – If you are an older guy that “has had girls, and can have girls,” ALL females, incluing Younger girls will simply KNOW IT – and indirect game is the way to go. No need to hit them over the head with direct.
Especially true for an older guy. I agree that an older guy with game stands out among a sea of hopeless loser older men. I’d say its 1 in a 1,000 (or more?) older guy who has the game, wealth, status, and alpha to be readily banging 18-24.
When one of these guys rolls up, females of all ages will know. It will instantly be subcommunicated in your demeanor, the way you “walk through the world” Lines and routines become secondary…
An alpha is an alpha, and the older alpha from say, 40 to 55, is potentially the most powerful and magnetic of any man— period —- , even more so than his younger counterpart.
Because the older alpha has had the time to acquire wealth, high societal status and possibly fame that younger male competition can’t compete with.
I agree.
Aren’t older men aided by pop culture and some bad boy antics by popular older than 30 men seem to date younger girls in real life and in the movies, making may decembering sort of normal or cool?
Famous guys have such ridonkulous higher SMV by virtue of status that it doesn’t trickle down much to normals. The fact that 18 year olds want to bang George Clooney doesn’t mean they’d still want to bang him if he had no game and a boring job. You have to make your own cool.
Plus, there’s a difference between being, say, 35 and knowledgeable of pop culture and being 35 and still listening to GnR or early 90s hip-hop.
So maybe you can tell me: what constitutes pop culture today (musically that is)?
MTV can show you the way, like it would have to older guys in the 1980′s.
A key to being successful with younger women when you’re post-40 is to be extremely fit.
I know that fitness is important at any age, but after 40, it becomes even more so. The reason is that, among older men, being fit is incredibly rare. It’s relatively easy to be fit when you’re 23, which means that fit 23 year-olds need to differentiate themselves in some other way.
But a man who is lean and strong at 43 is maybe one in a thousand. When I was 39, I was a f*cking fat slob. At 43, I’m in the best shape of my life. It also helps you stay young-looking. I got carded last weekend.
Also, I think a 40-something guy trying to blend in with 20-something culture almost always comes off as a loser. Be youthful in spirit, but your tastes should not be molded to fit the current trends.
Great comment. THERE IS NO EXCUSE not to be in shape, and muscular and solid, now that Paleo is here.
Indeed, you can actually REVERSE YOUR BIOLOGICAL AGE internally basically. This is confirmed by Art DeVany, a 74 year old who looks about 50, and was tested at a top aging lab in California and has biological age of 32 year old male.
DeVany also confirms that Testosterone does not drop with age. Not only has his T level not dropped at 74, it’s the highest his doctor has ever seen, and that DeVany is aware exists at his age – at top of scale (700).
He attributes it again to his Paleo lifestyle – eat Paleo, Lift Paleo. He also drinks moderately, enjoys cigars, and races motorcycles in the French Alps.
DeVany: “Aging is for dummies” — http://www.arthurdevany.com/
When I see older guys who refuse to learn Game and use Paleo to get jacked, I really have no sympathy.
The tools are here. We could be entering the fucking glory days of being an older man. Any guy too lazy to transform his life in the face of these tools deserves no sympathy
More snakeoil. And he doesn’t look 50.
It makes me very optimistic to read things like this. I’m 22 and have been on paleo/IF for about a year and lifting much longer than that.
Paleo fucking works. You can actually eat till satiety and still be healthy, lose weight and retain muscle mass.
It’s relatively easy to be fit when you’re 23,
Have you seen the average US 23 yo? Except for the grass eating ectos on here, there’s like 5x as many flabby fatties than when I was young. Just add some flip flop, baggy calf length shorts and a fanny pack and you’ll be consigned to the omega friendzone.
Older men should dress in a more sophisticated way especially in their sportswear (casual clothes to you young ‘uns) A lot of older men have that sloppy ill fitting clothes look and probably had it when young but now it’s really more pronounced..You can just as well hang a sign around your neck reading, working class stumblebum and that is not interesting to any young female. Females are very attuned to these things even among guys her age who she’s friendzoned for looking like nerds or kids.
And don’t talk about video games or how you’re a ccomputer programmer because she also views this as kid’s stuff(unless your name is Bill Gates)
I’ve said this elsewhere: dress like a grown-up. Button-down shirt, long pants, a sport coat if it’s not 100 degrees outside. There are several reasons for this.
1. Sportswear (like shorts, t-shirts, spandex bike pants, etc.) only looks good on actual athletes. It doesn’t make you look like an athlete if you wear it, it exaggerates how much you don’t look like an athlete. Seriously: unless you actually get paid to play a sport, or are actually on the Olympic team or a college varsity team, don’t wear sportswear in public. It’s like dressing up as a Klingon or an elf.
2. Don’t dress like a child. Children wear short pants, sneakers, and colorful shirts with cartoon characters on them. They think grown-up clothes are itchy. Now: how many women want to fuck little boys? And do you want to fuck a woman who likes to fuck little boys? No? Then don’t dress like one.
3. Look at how actual alpha males dress. Silvio Berlusconi always appears in public in a suit, even when he’s dry-humping a female cop on camera. George Clooney (I know we keep coming back to him, but he really is a very attractive man) almost always appears in a sport coat and button-down shirt. World War II was fought and won by men in ties.
4. The big secret is that grown-up clothes are designed to make grown-up men look good. They visually bulk out your shoulders and hide your gut. They cover your skinny pale legs. Let the talents of tailors and clothing designers help you.
Button-down shirt, long pants, a sport coat
That’s simply what guys like Clooney and myself have always worn as sportswear. It’s just our everyday clothing or at prep with a tie.
You must be a foreigner from Kansas perhaps? Sportswear is casual. The other stuff is called atheletic wear.
And it’s just called a shirt not a button down. Button down means the polo collar on the Brooks shirts that button down.
I live in a highly SWPL town in New England where “dressing up” means breaking out the good sandals. Grown men old enough to have grandchildren walk about in public wearing spandex bicycling pants. Thirty-year-old men with good-paying creative jobs go to work in cargo shorts and superhero t-shirts. Fathers of small children take them to the park wearing t-shirts emblazoned with obscene slogans. To be honest, I expect people in Kansas dress much better.
I used the term “button down shirt” to let people know that I wasn’t talking about a t-shirt or a rugby shirt or (god help us) an African Dashiki on a pudgy white dude. I’m with you, Chiparooney, but anyone who needs this advice needs it in clear, easy-to-understand terms.
I think you have to indirectly establish rapport with the girl. She has to know that she can talk to you and that you are interesting on her level, not like her Dad or other old people. However, you have to put it out there that you are available to her or she will just assume that you’ve got an older girlfriend or wife. Once you put it out there, be patient. Her initial reaction may be resistant, or even shock. But if you can maintain dominant frame, she will consider the offer. For some, the age gap is a deal-breaker. But its good to week those out. My advice would be to keep cool and maintain dominant frame, talk to her like an equal, not a child. Work in some pg13 teasing. Try to connect and then put it out there.
Women — especially prime age women in the 18-24 year old bracket — possess very strong preconceived notions about how older men will act around them. A direct, choose or lose, style of approach may violate their preconceptions so thoroughly that they respond by shutting down.
Well, the preconceived notion thing is exactly the problem, but if she knows from the beginning that this particular older man is “that kind of guy” then he’s got the opportunity to make a play without making her feel like her daddy (or grandpa) just made a pass at her.
I’d go with the direct approach if I were that kind of old man. Letting the woman frame you first as a sweet, sexless old fool isn’t going to help later. Better that she thinks you’re a dirty old man from the beginning.
I know this because I saw it work on several occasions when I was a little kid. Embarrassed the hell out of me back then, but it was one of those lessons you don’t forget.
I’ve only discovered Game this year. My mentality fits the thin somatotype (ectomorph), an intellectual type without a feelings drive or locus, not that I don’t have feelings. I am able to open in nightlife setting and almost never trigger the cockblock. That is amazing to me. Also started using eyes ‘from the soul’ and preliminary results are very good. Last weekend, met a hot black woman who was much younger and I won over her body quickly–again, amazing to me–by using eye confirmation appropriately between her grinding pauses and then standing beside her group, but found out she is married so I bailed on # she would have given me. That ten or fifteen minutes was my best work so far, so my perspective is limited.
I am in the Bible Belt. Rednecks like blacks and Hispanics do not see older men as too old. There are higher class whites who prevail in more urban settings that attract job seeker, like where I go out. Maybe the age limit irrelevance rubs off on non-redneck whites. I lack finances and worldly accomplishment, so I am forced into instinctive attraction as opposed to logical value. And yes, unhappily married women are the women who care least about real world value. They want their souls touched my a man’s soul, as all non-dyke women do to whatever intensity.
Bottom line: I do better with 30 and under and I am mid-40s. I’m told I look a bit younger.
Hypothesized reasons for better with 30 and under: (1) Older women are more likely to have kids which is bad logistics and mentality, divorce bitterness, a husband I don’t want to incense, a ticking biological clock and THE ONEitis, princess style with life-threatening commitment, (2) Frame in an older man who has intellectual surety and self-consistency is mentally very strong, stable, and deep. I know who I am, just not how to fit into this garbage citizenry…actually, I’m learning to wear instinctual clothes for the useful idiots, and (3) Second wave feminism completion, as I now explain.
The way I see it, women who are (in 2012) aged 36-28 were in the waning ‘penumbra’ of 2nd wave in their formative years. The major psycho hit was on those aged 48-36. In 2nd wave, little girl had both Disney princess aspirations for the special man easily lording over most men without a care and also mommy’s struggle for workplace equality. Women about 28 and under never faced ‘the workplace struggle’ and so are not hostile. They presume and trust and the greener grass on the other side is worry-free convenience if not submission. I wonder if the men 28 and under are mostly so wrecked they are not able to develop values from experiences. Women 48-36 want it all neurotically and are hardened forever. Older than 48 and I see no potential for a nuclear family on a long shot and just sex has lost its bloom. Yes, I am generalizing on all this. I wonder if the forever marriages are mostly aged 48 and over now.
In any event, here in the Bible Belt, I do better getting interest at least at 30 and under and the looks are a free bonus. It would not be that way in a sane country. So many women over 30 with kids fool themselves into thinking they have time for a man but the kids come first as they should and she is NOT available, just fooling herself and any attentive suitor. Maybe (I lack experience here) younger moms have more energy, and so do their moms for watching the kids. Once all kids leave the nest and old bag is ready for Prince Charming–how kind of her–she is ready for her life to come first (as read on dating sites), and she is Tales of the Crypt beautiful outside just like inside.
Being in better shape in my 40′s than most guys I see at clubs in their 20′s has absolutely given me an edge over the younger competition. Combining a good physique with a fairly aggressive direct approach has landed me numerous women 12-20 years my junior for both LTR’s and pump-n-dumps.
Fitness is key… both for maximum inner self-confidence and outward attractiveness.
I’ve found weight lifting (with a reasonable supplement of aerobic activity than doesn’t kill the knees) to be the only true natural fountain of youth.
pardon me, but i thought divorced women over 30 are the bread and butter for older guys. that’s my plan at least until my late 50′s. am i wrong?
An Alpha doesn’t take sloppy 23rds no matter how old he is (meaning that the woman had sex 23 times already)
Yeah ok, but what about someone who’s less than alpha? game is not “you are either a total beta or a total alpha”
Upper Betas can do well in many countries. The answer is to move before your local feminist society tells you what you have to date. Betas can show some pride and standards. Just say no to what you’d consider second rate if you were somewhere else.
That’s where it becomes hard to discern – the recently divorced woman who was married to her husband for 15 years or so is by far the better bet than the woman who is 35+ who has barely had long term relationships, much less been married.
The ones that are 39+ who have never been married I have found to be completely broken as human beings, nevermind as women. They are good for an easy shag though.
Maybe the Mickey D’s of older guys. Cheap and fast, but crappy and bad for your health.
Older women are the training ground for the younger women.
Anonymous – women in their 30′s come with a whole other set of baggage, and yes, I’ve been involved with my fair share of them. Frankly, my experience with women in their 30′s has been somewhat nightmarish, they are pretty f*cking psycho a lot of the time, and once they see you as potential mate material, the games and the shit tests go into serious high gear. I personally don’t have a lot of patience for that anymore, and I find myself kicking them to the curb a fuck of a lot. This year alone I’ve kicked 3 to the curb for their bullshit.
Here are some recent experiences of a man in his fifties in England.
I could make lots of excuses about England being full of politically correct socialist man-hating hags (true) or the reserved English character (true) but the truth is I am new to game and it is still scary. On several occasions I have had some very helpful support in the comments here from YaReally (many thanks my friend).
Direct game is a complete non-starter, maybe because of the social/political climate in England. More likely it is because in England men my age are supposed to be either married or gay, so English women think a direct approach is sleazy. Also the logistics of night game are a problem for me right now, for reasons too tedious to explain. So indirect day game it is.
I have completely changed by approach to women (previously a supplicant beta, all my cheating ex-wife’s friends described me as “the nicest man I have ever met”). What has been working for me is:
Seeing the flaws in a woman on approach (that is a biiig ass..) which helps me approach with utter confidence.
Utter confidence in myself is a must, because otherwise I cannot seem to hold the women’s attention (I am generally aiming at women 20 years younger than me).
I dress and groom very well (Savile Row suits, shirts from Milan).
I approach with funny, quirky observations and gentle negs. I recently started using compliment takeaways, which I am finding more difficult to do well. I always make sure my energy is good and I never use lame openers (It’s true, English people talk about the weather to open a conversation). Conversations are getting personal quite quickly, which I think is a sign of improvement. Also I rarely strike out, women enjoy talking to me. I have to remember not to become the entertainment monkey, which was a problem at first.
So have gone from the stage of waiting for an introduction to one where I will talk to any woman at the drop of a hat. Now in the stage of getting numbers.
Currently receiving IOIs from two women, one a well-preserved, very very sexy gal (early forties) in the Digital Media business, but our schedules (different parts of the country) have kept us from getting beyond that.
Second is a 27 year old Italian woman, slim, beautiful, but feisty and poor. I can see she likes me but am trying to work out whether she thinks this is a sugar-daddy opportunity. Which is not what I want. I may be too cautious with this one.
My issues right now are:
Still get anxious during approaches. Twice I have been so wrapped up in getting my approach right that I have walked away from what, in hindsight, were obvious IOIs.
Not doing enough approaches. If I am tired (it happens when you get older) or work is not going well, I make excuses not to approach.
Flaking. I am getting numbers but not enough, and almost all of my number closes flake.
So this is where I am. Currently assessing the situation in order to decide what to do to get laid. The most important things at the moment are:
I am enjoying the chase/number closure
I now have no fear of women.
I am finding it difficult to convert.
Your feedback on my experience is most welcome.
I can help with the flaky numbers problem.
Skip the number close completely! Tell the girl that you’ll be doing [activity x] at [time and place] and invite her to come out and do it with you.
The reason you do this is girls will often flake on a guy they actually LIKE. It’s really fucking annoying, but it happens all the time. Sometimes it’s a shit test, sometimes it’s ASD, and sometimes she’s just being a bitch. Whatever it is, you don’t really care, you just don’t want to put up with it.
So don’t get her number, and don’t give her yours. Now she has two options. She can flake on your date. But she doesn’t have your information so she can’t call and explain why. You don’t have her information, so you can’t call and reschedule. If she flakes, she never EVER gets to see you again. Or she can show up.
If you’ve done your job right, you’ve raised enough value that she wants to see you again. Thus she’ll show up.
I started doing that and my flake percentage went way downhill. As a side benefit, the activity I invite the girls on is always something I was planning on doing anyways! Going on a hike, having a latte, or heading up to the hills for some shooting practice. If the girl doesn’t show up, it’s only a small loss. I’ve still got a fun afternoon ahead of me!
Theorize->Field Test->(repeat). You need to change something on purpose. I suggest studying vibe and eye contacts, starting at seductionbase.com.
While I’m not an older dude, I would say this- Your style should be impeccable, you should be well groomed, and not fat.
Many girls do cream for silver foxes and attractive older men, but…. there are none to be found because a lot of you old fools are sloppy.
Regardless, if you’re dressed well and all that and have taken good care of yourself, I see a couple opportunities to play this
(indirect) The conversationalist with stories of adventure and whatnot in his youth, a man who is finitely more experienced and travelled than she will ever be. Among wine and devilishly increasing kino, you regale her, and seal the deal.
(direct) Vicki Christina Barcelona type shit, the older man with swag x1000
Your style should be impeccable, you should be well groomed, and not fat.
yeah, think james bond. fit, impeccably dressed, can slay women of any age.
but sadly, as the west gets fatter and fatter, even being closer to austin powers than james bond can give you a leg up over a lot of other guys.
This seems accurate. It’s more difficult to be attractive as a man (or woman, but that’s another story) ages, so it’s more impressive when it is achieved.
Speaking as an older guy (mid-40s), this is spot on.
It is incredibly important take good care of oneself and be well-groomed (have a style, a ‘look’).
Being overweight is said to physically age a person by up to 10 years or more, and this is also the case with appearance after around age 30 or so. Conversely, in today’s society where so many people, especially middle-aged and older, are overweight, being fit and well-groomed will reduce your apparent age (and physical feeling) by at least 20%, and maybe more depending on your genes.
Gabardines and clean, polished shoes with matching belt are an absolute requirement. Practically does the work for you. I still get the looks and I’m 55, often from a girl with her young male partner who is dressed in cargo pants and stupid-ass tshirt.
And some Tango lessons
And out there in Walt country tropial weight worsted is better.
As an older PUA, i find it more effective to DHV myself until i notice iois. Silently telling me she is interested in sex opens a door that allows me entrance to her heart.
And i walk through it.
An older man needs to deal with her fears. By using a little more conversation, a man can find out what fears she has and respond by demonstrating how she need not have those fears with him.
Having said that, I am finding more young women approaching me. Maybe it is age. Maybe it is because I am far more skilled in PUA DO than I used to be. I don’t know how I am attracting them…to paraphrase that wisened sage, Mr. Nunamaker, when commenting on how positraction works, “I just do.”
When they do open me, I assume the sale. I know they have a couple concerns about swwming like a slut, so I have a couple easy to meet qualifiers to show I am the high valued man they think I am. Once I do that, I go direct.
Swwming = (fat-fingered version of) Seeming
What are these easy qualifiers, if you’d be kind enough to share a couple?
Depends on the situation. I have so many that they come out without thinking about them.
But things like, “What kind of music do you like?” “What’s your favorite food?” I use these to push-pull. One moment I will confirm that her opinion is like mine, which I will qualify further…such as “I like jazz…” “That’s cool. Old Style Louis Armstrong Jump Jazz, easy listening Michael Bolton, or fusion?” …whatever she says, I bounce off of…if she says Jump Jazz, then I again agree. If she says Michael Bolton, I chide her hard for being tone deaf.
That is just one example that is among several.
Usually with food, I comment on the best place to find that food in the area.
You just gotta be cool like me. You can be a little fat too. Women don’t mind it as much as they say they do.
Yeah but sex sucks when you’re a fatass. I was 60 lbs overweight and every time I had sex, I used to sweat like in a marathon, and breathe like an elephant. My dick was also a full inch shorter because of all the fat, my erections were inconsistent, and my cumshots were weak.
Nothing beats a lean athletic cad, even when you’re old.
I’m 42, am decently successful in the sexual market, and two things jump out right away: First, older men should generally stay out of clubs and the wilder night venues. 30 is about the high point for that behavior, maybe. Older than that and you’re seen as the old creep, leering at the young. Bars are somewhat better. You’re more able to pull off the solo vibe in a bar, especially if you’ve got unreal confidence. But certainly, older men roving in packs is strictly off-putting. It speaks of corporate hacks at a convention away from the wives looking for easy tail. Not good if you want anything other than the slut fives and below. Two, maybe three guys out should be the limit. But certainly a confident, solo older man can swoop if he goes indirect with calm, unshakable game and NO bending; no neediness of any kind. Total indifference to her wanting or not wanting is key. It should seem like you’ve done this thousands of times before. Scripted; smooth; detached. Being sexual creatures, hot young women know what’s coming; they just want to see it done expertly, and they assume that an older man knows what to do.
Second, being introduced into a younger group by a median-aged female is a good strategy. Not someone old enough to be a mother-figure, nor someone young enough to be a peer, but someone the younger females can view as a good judge of character. In other words, you’ve already been vetted. Dinner parties, house parties, gatherings of like-minded people (art crowd, sports crowd, etc.) are decent ways to work into the younger set.
I’m in an outrigger paddling club, and we mix with the younger teams regularly, both in practice and during regattas. Being part of the group takes away the weird older-guy vibe and replaces it with a comfortable comradery. Obviously, for the sports set you need to be in good shape to do something like this; but trust me, if you’re in good shape, even with a touch of gray on the sides, and can walk with confidence, the younger set WILL give you a try.
“First, older men should generally stay out of clubs and the wilder night venues. 30 is about the high point for that behavior, maybe.”
Nah. Most of the RSD instructors are early 30s. It comes down to your own comfort level though. If you feel like the crowd is “too young” and you’re self-conscious about being there, they’re going to pick up on that vibe from you and you WILL be out of place.
You can always hit the “old people nightclubs” (most cities have at least one) but then you’re stuck choosing from wrinkly old chicks with baggage lol
You’re absolutely right about that self-consciousness thing. It applies to everyone, of course. You should never be self-conscious, because it always shows. However, one of the great things about age is that you tend to lose a lot of that self-consiousness of youth. Try to cultivate the who-gives-a-fuck worldly above-it-all attitude If you don’t have it by the time you’re middle-aged, you are screwed; it is THE sign of maturity. Without it, you are just an old creeper. Don’t act young. Act mature, but not old. See Jamse Bond. You CAN get a girl 20 years your junior, senior.
Still, I hate clubs. Too loud. Throw a party instead. In your big fucking mansion. Have it catered, with gorgeous young twenty-year old girls serving the drinks and hors d’oeuvres. You can afford it, because you are at your peek-earning years, and everyone loves to be around beauty, guys AND girls.
Try to cultivate the who-gives-a-fuck worldly above-it-all attitude
After a certain age you don’t have to cultivate anything.You’re not pretending to be indifferent, you really are.
I find that the best bet is to just go to a place where young women WANT to meet older men, and then you just go direct. But the secret is finding the place in town where younger women go to meet older guys. It’s not the college pub.
Hey, it’s tenmagnet. Awesome.
On that note, lovesystems has a 30+ forum at http://www.theattractionforums.com/30-forum/ that’s a solid read for guys hitting the “am I getting too old for this?” self-doubts.
The RSD forum skews pretty young and the sosuave mature man forum is just awful, so I recommend the lovesystems one if you want more game/PUA specific reading on this stuff (vs manosphere game).
Look for posts by silversixone. He recently wrote a great article on this very topic.
It really helps if you go to the place where younger women go to meet older guys. Trying to pick up at the local college pub looks a bit odd if you’re over 30.
I’m writing a comment because my opinion is of the Essence.
Everyone has the right to my own opinion.
I’m currently dating a girl 10 years younger (this being the second time I’ve done so and I’m never going back to jaded, bitter, biological clock ticking old broads). It seems to me that for serial monogamy purposes, indirect game demonstrating that you are a mature, responsible alpha unlike their college “brosef” classmates is the key. These girls will tell you that they are hit on by creepers and loser dudes with no game all damn day. They know they are young and hot and all men want them. No man just befriends a college girl.
They usually throw out the age difference as a shit test, but they really don’t care because their jumblies are all excited that a real man is interested in them. However, it will remain an issue because their families (aka their beaten down by feminists beta father’s) deny that older man/younger woman is the natural order of the world. I’ve never been anything less than honest in my intentions (I like hanging out with you, but you have growing to do and we both know we will eventually part ways) and they are more than happy to have their fling and get some great, grown-up experiences from the relationship.
Another tip to keep the young ones around is to actually be cultured (which is part and parcel of being the alpha male pack leader). After you land the digits, a perfect first date is a museum followed by a cool, ethnic restaurant. It’s something her fellow 22 years olds would never do. HTH.
Older women are the training ground for the younger women
Words of wisdom!
As an older PUA, i find it more effective to DHV myself until i notice iois
Now that I am getting closer to 30, the way to DHV is through table service. It helps a lot to have money for that…
Money game will attract gold diggers. Not saying that is bad. Just saying.
Money game will attract almost all girls, including gold diggers. If you want to avoid the gold diggers you then have to screen them out, which may be a pain.
Game guys (other than a few true experts) often get this wrong and assume you should hide your wealth and status act like a poor college student. All is fair in love and war. Use all the resources you have at your disposal.
True…
Off Topic:
Future betaboys of america react after seeing movie, “The Odd Life Of Timothy Green”
These boys are old enough to hear a stern “KNOCK OFF THE CRYING AND BE A MAN!” from pops, and then a calm explanation about the realities of life and death in this system of things… and perhaps then an explanation of how death came to be, and the hope of what the future holds when death is no more.
In the boys’ defense, though, one child’s overblown emotional trauma is catching and becomes a catalytic reaction amongst the others if not nipped in the bud, rather than amusingly encouraged by these (pah, bad taste in the mouth) SWPLs.
ghey
If I practice anything at 51 that could be called ‘game’ it would be indirect game.
I have had four, make that five women actually approaching me recently, each easily less than half my age. Of those five, one definitely had ‘daddy problems’ broken home, parents living apart – that, and her excessively large breasts for her otherwise petite body size disqualified her.
I imagine that daughters of divorced parents might be a rich vein to mine.
“her excessively large breasts for her otherwise petite body size disqualified her.”
God bless y’all semi-gays who find big titties off-putting.
More titties for me.
The old guys know the truth about big jugs.
Yeah, gravity is their enemy. Small breasts will still look good decades later.
God bless y’all semi-gays who find big titties off-putting.
More titties for me.
I’m with you on that…
Yeah, the real big ones might sag as the years roll on, but it still beats half-a-handful… and many hold up just fine… and I was put on this earth to hold up my share.
To my experience, it works best if you just don’t make age an issue, but behave like it’s the most normal thing on earth that a mid-30ies guy hits on an early 20 chick. If you are mentally young and behave mature, she will soon forget (or even start to appreciate) the age gap. Of course, teasing her sometimes that she is sweet, but naive or otherwise too inexperienced for you works fantastic.
So true. Back when I was in the prime age bracket, I went out with a couple guys that were ~10 years older than me. I didn’t think it was an issue at all but I remember one brought it up, and he just seemed *too* excited about the fact I was 22, which creeped me out. We’re conditioned from early on to only associated with people our own age (school being set up how it is) but in the grand scheme of things a man being 10 years older than a woman isn’t that big of a deal- so don’t act like it is!
Good point. This also goes for height. This why I was pulling taller tale as a high school senior — it had never occurred to me I wasn’t entitled to it.
College and feminist bullshit will fuck you up good. Avoid that.
How right…as a man, If you don’t make it an issue, she won’t either. I’m only 5’6”, but handsome, fit and full of relaxed game – the ladies cue up!
As a man in his late thirties I always found I was most successful with a straight up approach – a little cocky, more about culture, and cracked the odd neg. Really I think it was the talk about culture that really sealed the deal. Women in their mid to late 20′s can’t find a straight man, let alone many Alphas, who do things like attend the opera or orchestra. For a second or third date, I would get more action after dropping $20 on cheap rush tickets and having her buy two martinis at the bar beforehand then I can remember. Something about putting on that little black dress and going to a cultural event with a guy in a suit really gets the hamster going. I always counsel guys in the late 30′s to early 40′s who want to work the 27-32 crows to ramp up their local culture credibility and to work that angle.
Well that was then, now looking to get out of the game. Once was married for three years in my early twenties. It ended in divorce because I was a beta chump. Then I found a guy who turned me on the early PUA stuff on the web in the late 90′s. Been working game ever since. The girlfriend who has been around about the last four years really wants to get hitched. About a year ago, we had a conversation where she told me in a sincere way (at least for a woman) that she really wanted to get married and if I wasn’t that guy she wanted to know so she could move on. I told her I would sincerely think about but needed a year. She reluctantly agreed.
Now that year is almost up. (Talk about dread game, she has been on edge now for about eleven months). Figured though if I was going to remarry she was as good as anyone and I ought to think about it seriously. Who was I to have the moral authority to string her along if it was her sincere belief. Started out by buying a $500 ring at Macys. (It looks more like a $2000 ring and is pretty nice, but not too nice…seriously guys if you want a perfectly acceptable ring ignore the jewelry stores and just go to a big box department store). Then I read all the standard anti-marriage blogs again. Visited my lawyer too. He drew up a rock solid pre-nup. I was actually pretty surprised by what you can put in those things (at least in my state). Even put in a perfectly legal clause that if she wants a no fault divorce she has to pay a $5,000 penalty to me AND I get to either boot her out of the house or she has to pay 6 months of my living expenses if I opt to move out. Also, talked to all my married friends whose opinions ranged from hell no to its not soooo bad. Even had a two month long discrete fling that I just wrapped up.
After all this I figured why not try marriage one more time. Maybe I am crazy. Maybe I drank the kool aid. Maybe that makes me a beta chump. I don’t know. Just think where I am in life with who I am with it makes sense. It comes with a few riders that are non-negotiable. 1) small, inexpensive wedding 2) pre-nup is a must and 3) chill honeymoon then we just go about living our lives.
Just not sure how and when to ask her. It certainly won’t be elaborate or in any way involve her friends or family. It will just be her and me in a casual way. We have a planned European vacation coming up in a month and I figured to just give her the ring on random night. Or I was also thinking of just sliding across the table at dinner. I think I am leaning toward Europe. Pop the question half way through the trip. Get some killer sex. Then come back and take care of the legalities such as the pre-nup.
So there you have it a story about how game worked for an old guy. I really don’t even know why I decided to type the entire story here, but there it is. if you have any thoughts on how I should do it or think I am making the worst mistake of my life please make it known.
Don’t. Get. Married.
Tell her that you love her, that you honestly doubt that someone else can care for her or love her the way you do. But you can’t get married. If she won’t fall for “we don’t need a paper and state sanction to be in love”, then make it clear that marriage will only ruin things, that most married people are miserable. That “we don’t need marriage, what we need is kids”, if you don’t have problems with kids.
Tell her something, anything, in the most alpha way possible. If she freaks out, show some beta compassion.
You fucked up big time when you asked for one year. You should have asked for 3 months… or 20 years.
Prenups are a joke. There’s no such thing as iron clad prenup.
She will get bored after the marriage. The only thing that keeps her on her toes is the thrill of the suspense, the haunting idea that she may be wasting her life with you. Once you strip her from these powerful emotions, she will get bored. If she doesn’t get bored, she will get old.
Marriage is for chumps. Wake up, alpha boy.
“then we just go about living our lives.”
Right. You sound like you’re bringing a dog home from the pound.
Fill out the papers. Get her spayed. Buy her a dinner bowl. You
need to find out exactly what “living our lives” means TO HER.
Now I wouldn’t blame you for thinking, “hey asshole I’m the one
who’s been with her for four years, not you,” but you’ve been with the girl, not THE WIFE.
Ask her for specifics about money, housing, work, etc. If she says she doesn’t care about any of that as long as she’s with you then
run for your life.
And her friends and family who won’t in any way be involved, well
how long will that last? Are they kooks? Tell us about her mother.
What about YOUR friends? Will they get taken out and shot in that
particular American Wife style?
I only comment because you invited and your story resembles my younger brother’s. He thought he was marrying a chill chick, turned out he was giving Hitler the enabling act.
It’s important for guys (of any age) to understand that Indirect doesn’t mean Asexual.
If you’re obviously older than her, she needs to know you’re a sexual older man who’s been around and knows how to fuck. All you’re doing with indirect is not making it obvious that you’ve chosen her to be the one you want to fuck next. You don’t sit there and talk about Glee lol This means you make sexual jokes, innuendo, comments, talk about sex and sexual stories, get her talking about her fantasies, etc. instead of avoiding all that and being asexual. If she’s into older men, she’ll shoot you IOIs, and then you escalate fast as fuck (you’re an important older man with shit to do, you don’t have time to play txt games for weeks, you don’t have Facebook, etc.).
You also want to bring the vibe that you’re qualifying/screening her a lot more. Most older guys go in with her up on the pedestal since she’s the young hot chick and he’s the “creepy old guy” so naturally he should have to impress her, but you want to approach it from the reverse: You’re the older, mature, experienced, accomplished man and she’s just a silly young girl who hasn’t done shit with her life yet so she should be trying to impress you.
You’re not trying to show her you can fit into her world, you’re trying to decide if she can fit into yours.
I like to drop stuff like “Have you ever been with an older man?” early on, like when they ask my age, because it sets the frame of “I’m sizing you up, sexually, so if you’re not interested you should run away right now” but doesn’t say “I want to fuck you”…it’s just letting her know that you’re already screening her and haven’t decided if you want to fuck her yet.
“I find that some girls are intimidated by older men…but you don’t seem like you’re the type that GETS intimidated, are you?” (qualifying, cold-reading, etc.)
You’re gonna’ get a lot of younger chicks who just completely won’t fuck you because of your age, even if they like you and are attracted to you…the numbers are too much of a mind-fuck for her. Like I met a chick 2 years older than me and she was self-conscious about her being older than me and mentioned “robbing the cradle”. Like, really? 2 YEARS is cradle-robbing?? lol
I don’t like to lie about my age, but sometimes the girl needs (and wants) you to. Actual pre-makeout conversation with a 20yo from the other weekend:
Her: “How old are you?”
Me: “31.”
Her: “No way, you’re not 31. Ew that’s gross, how old are you REALLY?”
Me: “Okay, 26.”
Her: “Whew, good. I’m SO glad you’re not 31…”
She WANTED to make-out, but she needed me to be within the maximum age range she’s always pictured she could get with. And since she was attracted by that point there was no WAY (in her mind) that I could be past that maximum age range because she couldn’t possibly be attracted to someone older than it.
A big thing that helps older guys too, is social proof. Get to know the staff at some regular places and make friends that you can go out with so you look like an important “man-about-town” instead of just a creepy guy with a beer by himself in an 18yo bar doing laps.
Also take care of your grooming and style and shit. A 40yo woman wearing mom-jeans and hair from the 80s isn’t a “hot cougar” lol Get some exercise too, because by 30+ you should have cultivated an interest in taking care of your body. At 20 when you’re scarfing down McD’s every night no one gives a shit, you’re young, you have time to become responsible…but at 30+ you should really be demonstrating “I take care of my health”. Plus you’ll be able to fuck better, and you’ll need the energy to keep up with the young-un’s.
Remember that “What you feel, she feels”, so if you feel like your age difference is weird, she will. If you don’t, she won’t (unless like I said, she has specific hang-ups about going past a certain age range, which lots of the 18yo’s will because they haven’t even fucked a guy their age let alone their dad’s age). And a girl’s biggest fear is social judgement, so don’t go hang out with her and her friends (unless they’re female and you think you can charm them too so they approve). If she’s all “come meet me at BarX” and you go there and she’s there with her 6 18yo orbiter guy-friends in their Abercrombie shit, you shot yourself in the foot lol
Anyway, in summary: For older guys I’d say go indirect and make her qualify herself while making sure the conversation is sexual, and if she’s into you she’ll shoot you an IOI or try to qualify herself to you (“oh my last boyfriend was 35!”) and then you escalate the situation like a motherfucker the second you get that IOI.
I’m 36 and haven’t significantly changed my game in 20 years, at least not consciously. While I have gotten older, my girlfriends/hookups have remained the same age, 20-25. Maybe I’ve enjoyed success with younger women simply because I don’t have to ACT like it doesn’t exist. It really doesn’t exist in my mind. It honestly never occurred to me that men shouldn’t date women 15-20 years younger, and it still seems odd to me that others would find the practice disturbing.
I suppose I said all that to simply say this, age difference, in my opinion, is to be simply ignored. If you act like it doesn’t exist, it will cease to exist in her mind very quickly.
“Maybe I’ve enjoyed success with younger women simply because I don’t have to ACT like it doesn’t exist. It really doesn’t exist in my mind. It honestly never occurred to me that men shouldn’t date women 15-20 years younger, and it still seems odd to me that others would find the practice disturbing.”
This is the right attitude. A lot of guys have been socially conditioned to worry about age differences so it’s hard for them to shift into this mindset. It’s another reason why PUAs stress going out and getting field experience. The more variety of women/ages/classes/etc you meet, the less that stuff bothers you because you gain enough positive reference experiences to not care.
I’ve banged women from 17 up to 50 lol age doesn’t mean anything to me and I sometimes do a double-take when a girl is concerned about it because I have to think “oh ya, normal people worry about a 2 year age gap, I forgot”
I am 50, and have had success practicing the crimson dark arts – as you so refer to them – before they became popularized in your most excellent blog. I’ve pretty much dedicated much of my life to the pursuit of feminine beauty and attention, sadly. Hell and to think I could have been an astronaut.
Your most recent post is correct. Direct game will not work on young women. Or, on the most desirable young women at least. The allure of the older man to the young woman – especially in today’s feminized society – is the native masculinity expected to be present in the older man, by the young woman. This should be evidenced by his demonstrated mastery of the world, self-control of his emotions, and an all-knowing bemused grin with the goal of channeling of the young woman’s initial fear and diffidence of him into feelings of desire. To overcome the fear and diffidence, the older man must open his younger prey with conversation that is edgy, but not overtly sexual – at first. The initial topics covered must demonstrate to the young woman his higher value compared to her, but this needn’t be overdone, as she will naturally assume such.
Overt negs are not necessary when dealing with most younger women, provided your projection is spot on. In fact, they can actually hurt the chances of successful pickup – as these negs can come across as either fatherly-ish rebukes, or as being more hurtful to her psyche than when coming from someone closer to her age.
The largest problems one runs into as an older man seducing younger woman are 1) keeping the conversation from amplifying the age gap; steering clear of generationally specific topics, stifling discussion or even acknowledgement of one’s children, and 2) an attention to dress and grooming. Very important…an older man should follow the general rule that the less flesh seen the better, and attention should be paid to procuring quality clothing. A slovenly dressed older man comes off as pathetic.
I personally believe wingmen are optional, but I’d be interested in other opinions here. I don’t think they hurt, but on the other hand it isn’t as unusual to see an older man alone in the right type of bar, sipping his drink, chatting with the bartender, and surveying his world. Older men are often seen alone and thought of as standing alone, like kings.
If a bar is to be used as a pickup venue, it helps if you are not the only guy there over 40…otherwise right from the gitgo it looks tryhard.
While indirect game I believe is the best approach, sexual intentions and interest should be shown early. There should never be communicated any fear or embarrassment for pursuing younger women – it’s much less forgivable for the older man.
I personally believe that now more than ever – the older man/younger woman pairing works; and probably has never worked better since its prevalence during the settling of the early United States, when it was quite common to see an age gap (particularly with a second wife, the first having died in childbirth) of 15 years or more. Why is this so? Because of the stability and worldly experience represented by the older man. Men can deal with chaos – and some even long for it. Women, though, cannot. The older man represents shelter from the storm of the fast-collapsing West. Here is where we have an advantage over our younger competitors, in that the younger women we pursue are more likely to believe that we can be caught successfully, and harnessed to provide sorely-needed resources, all other things being alpha-equal
Excellent advice. +1
The older I get, the more I prefer indirect game (particularly as defined by YaReally– indirect does NOT mean asexual). It’s mainly based off my desire to give girls shit. Also, I’ve become very wary of pedestalizing women (which never worked for me when I was younger). Early direct game not only pays her ego a tribute before she’s earned it, but it takes the fun of the chase away.
Men seem to look better in their 30s. I am currently “dating” my first 30-year-old, a finance expert. I have never shown so much respect for a man.
Finding myself acting more typically “feminine” and compliant when he is around. Trust me this is not me. But I feel really great around this guy. And god he looks amazing in his suits.
I’ve seen pictures of him in his 20s and he looked really childish if not clownish.
I don’t think I would have dated him then.
I’m 22 by the way. It seems that older men never hit on me? Or maybe they are going too “indirect” and I can’t tell at all.
I’ve known men as old as 45 who could’ve had a chance with me if they had only sent some signals that they were interested. But then again they were probably married.
Suggestion to older men: there are definitely young and attractive women out there who want to date you. Specifically me, so just go for it.
I’m considering raising my age minimum from 27 to 30 now that I’ve experienced “older” men.
Yeah, the high point for women is in their early to mid twenties.
But for men, it’s usually mid-to late thirties.
Because that’s when many men start to hit their stride in the world: status, wealth, they become truly dominant as opposed to faking it.
Also I think the ideal pairing for human beings may be “half a man’s age plus seven years” as the old saying goes.
Which means “older man-younger woman” is what nature intended.
No wonder girls love older men.
Hey kid, 30 is still a boy and that age difference between you and him is nothing.
Only in our spoiled-ass, antiseptic modern SWPL world is 30 still a boy… maturity isn’t always a function of calendar age.
I’m 22 by the way. It seems that older men never hit on me?
Or perhaps you’re not high quality enough for them. Merely being 1/2 their age is no guarantee that they’re interested in you.
Finding myself acting more typically “feminine” and compliant when he is around. Trust me this is not me.
trust us, it is.
as a girl it is in your very nature, your biological programming, to be feminine and compliant. it’s just that you’ve been socially conditioned to think and act more like a man. thus you believed this to be the real you, but it really isn’t.
up until now you haven’t met a guy who was able to rescue your xx chromosomes withering from underexposure and bring out the real you.
welcome to your five minutes of alpha.
I’m considering raising my age minimum from 27 to 30
considering? you already shattered that arbitrary 27 year age restriction.
and your new 30 year age restriction will shatter just as easily.
I’m seventy, and I’ve been married for more years than the women that I’ve seen on the side, by a good amount. Game? They need to know you are willing and able, and discrete and something of an adventure for them. Women above 30 worry they will look desperate or foolish or too easy. Women below 30 worry you will think they are too stupid about the world. So, reassure them a little bit — not too much because they need to be a little uncertain — and they will try hard to overcome their self-perceived inadequacies for some fun. Remember that the age difference means that there is virtually no chance for encounters to turn into LTRs, That operates both as a relief and an excuse for them. Also, I remember that any chance you get may be the last chance you will ever get, as the years roll on.
Wonderful. Thanks for your perspective — it’s spot on.
70 and still going at it? Well done, sir. Play on.
Treat every bang as if it will be your last… words to live by for all ages.
R.Don Steele elucidated older man game 20 years ago in his timeless classic “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35, Volumes I and II”. His method relies less on snappy approaches and more on slowly laying the groundwork towards relationships with young women. Also compares and contrasts younger men/older men and why young ladies want an older man and how to cultivate them.
His website steelballs.com has some intro material.
No, I am not R.Don Steele.
Don has some excellent insights regarding the mindset of a woman at all age groups and how she perceives an older man. However, most of his stuff is primarily focused on helping beta-types run pickup by recognizing glaringly obvious IOIs. A skilled seducer will want to make his own breaks and deal with the occasional tough blowout rather than protect his ego.
I only date women 26 or younger. I’m 37. I still swear by indirect-direct. I make no secret that I’m hitting on them but I do it initially with my subcommunication and then transition to more overt statements of interest later in the interaction.
NoloContendre
The allure of the older man to the young woman – especially in today’s feminized society – is the native masculinity expected to be present in the older man, by the young woman.
————————————————————————————–
Yup. In addition, you can OPENLY call bullshit on all aspects of the feminized culture because you have something to compare it to. Ditto with respect to music, movies, art… When I show young girls why there would be no Tina Turner without Ike, its not that they don’t say anything. They say, “wow, I didn’t know that”
Most importantly, don’t project your experiences from 20 years ago onto todays young girls. They’ve had 20 years of Oprah, “you go girl!”, “empowerment”…. they have all been told its their duty to go to the amusement park and have as much fun as they can.
You’re just another ride at the amusement park.
Don’t over think it.
(matter of fact, some of them want the scary, dangerous ride)
I haven’t seen such insightful and helpful commentary on CH in a long time.
Makes me think.
That the 30+ crowd know their shit (based off the numerous coherent comments I just read) and that the less 30- crowd aren’t quite there yet.
Doesn’t surprise me. Glad I have something to look forward to as odds are my steez will become refined.
I.G.
Edit: Spelling my bad
Edit: Spelling, my bad
interesting comments, considering I saw an article today on abovethelaw by a law partner who gets all kinds if names in the comments section because he dared say that younger woman are at their peak attractiveness and together up for a law career at their peril. I can’t imagine that 30plus lawyers are great fun, even for some of you rocking older alphas. But I may be wrong on that.
I’m 53, engaged to a 32 y.o. legit HB8 with a 25 y.o. candidate on the side. Fitness, confidence, and direct game all the way.
Just turned a young looking 51. I can generally same night close a women in her 30s (7 – 8) if I’m seated next to her at the bar. Combination of indirect conversation and playful kino.
I was a student of Tenmagnet …
“Generation skipping game” happens when a fit 50 ish guy manages to totally impresses a gang of 20 something guys by pulling off things of transcendent coolness like winning a hovercraft race in Stockholm with his own design after air-frieghting over his whole team.Likely as not, they will rave to their age-mate girls – largely unaware of the for -real tingling inspired by their second hand stories ‘ Because that dude is too odd, doncha know.”
What the girls hear is “Too old? He is winning races in an exotic motor sport that the BBCs TopGear is going gaga about.” I wanna meet him!!!
Really meet. him.
Yeah, generation skipping game Turn young men into your worshippers and the door for poon-plundering is wide open.
It’s easier than that. What you just described would work but sounds like a lot of trouble for little marginal gain. In fact, guys like that will often just inadvertently help their male followers get laid because they, themselves, were too busy organizing that hovercraft race.
In other words, that and a solid frame of entitlement would get him laid.
Obviously we all can’t be hovercraft racers. But I think he has a valid point: get younger men to admire you and the women will trail in their wake.
Women love a winner, true… but if her gaggle of friends (men or women) start the “too old” mantra, well… an incarnate hamster may be a loner as a pet, but THE hamster is a pack animal.
Man, old guy game. What an idea. I guess I might need it one day if I want to live my life how I want. I want to have kids but still bang cute young girls forever. My uncle is almost 60, spent his life as a truck driver and bouncer and biker, fat, mows lawns to make money nowadays. He just had a kid with a 22 year old I went to school with after spending a couple year mooching off a 30 something who kicked her husband out so he could move in, and he has five fully grown kids already. Fuck that. Its inspiring like a crack baby becoming President: clearly its possible, but I dont have any clue how.
Womanizers, help me out here!
Ongoing convo i’m having with a chick (dating website):
Me:I should spank you >:(
Her: I would just eat your plants if you did that.
Me:If you touch my spearmint plant, i’ll leave bruises.
Her:hand shaped bruises?
What say I next?
8=====D shaped
Does anyone else miss the old Yahoo messenger, where you could meet women without having to disclose your age? It seemed back then there were a lot of really young girls who didn’t care about age.
That “scene” now seems to have transformed into the OKCupid realm, where you’re forced to disclose your age — and women have to put an age bracket they prefer. Kind of ruins the whole thing.
Forced? As in mailing in your driver’s license or they are like that True.com dating site that I thought crashed and burned from lack of interest?
Match.com briefly had a policy ten years ago where they made it impossible for anyone to change their birthdate after first entering it. Sales dropped off precipitously because the bread and butter users were and are, drum roll please, older people trying to stay relevant.
They changed their policy fast.
A website on cuckoldry advises that in order to convince a reluctant partner to cuckold you, you should be beta towards her.
“The key to helping your lover see you as a cuckold and not as the alpha male that she married is to become so subservient to her that sexually you become boring.
Some of those ways include:
Waiting on her hand and foot
Instead of being the alpha male, let her take the lead
Be overly romantic”
@ http://infoportal.hubpages.com/hub/The-Joy-of-Cuckolding
“as there’s no disincentive to stop them from doing it.”
That is, men should just pump and dump all the way as there’s no disincentive from women cuckolding them or put another way there’s no disincentive from women reproductively exploiting those men who pursue long-term relationships with them.
Perhaps one way to conceptualise why women don’t like emotional/sensitive guys would be to consider this.
Men value women for their sexual intimacy, while women value men for the emotional intimacy.
Now men don’t want a relationship with a woman who is promiscuous with her sexual intimacy as it either indicates she has low value, or potential for cuckoldry.
Perhaps women don’t want relationships with emotional/sensitive guys as these men are promiscuous with their emotional intimacy. And their emotional promiscuity indicates they are either low value or have a potential for abandonment.
So a niceguy is to women, what a slut is to a man.
Now, when you here feminist therapists telling men they they should be more sensitive and get in touch with their feminine side and what not, those therapists are no different from some old sleazy lecher trying to convince women that it’s in their best interest to sleep around and experiment with their sexuality in the hopes that the woman will sleep with them.
Basically, telling men to be more sensitive is a ploy to make it easier for women to use men, just as telling women to be more sexually open would be a ploy to make it easier for men to use women.
Chris, that’s a terrific contribution; impressively well articulated. Thank you.
Interesting.
But physical promiscuity carries with it real-world disasters, from disease to emotional brittleness, to raising the spawn of other men… so it’s quite understandable that that would be a deal-breaker for men in how they view women… and perhaps even a little vice versa, given this Age of STD.
But I don’t see how it would harm women to have a man that was “nice” to everyone, including other women… the only downside is that maybe it doesn’t deeply satisfy an individual woman’s desire to be that special unique snowflake if her man is sensitive to the feelings of other women as well… but that’s no rational or moral reason to view said man as the equivalent of a slut.
Then again, who said rationality or morality were cornerstones of the female mind.
Men value women for their sexual intimacy, while women value men for the emotional intimacy.
And this is absolutely key to older guy game. Women crave emotional intimacy just as men crave
physical intimacysex. As an older guy (I’m in my early fifties, which judging from the comments is on the high side of older) you can offer the intimacy and stability she craves along with adventure and excitement. But (as the OP says later) don’t offer emotional intimacy early or easily. Make it clear that a relationship with you emotional intimacy must be earned, and that great rewards are reaped by those who work to do so.Doesn’t make sense. I fuck as many sluts as I can. Do women fuck as many nice guys as they can?
You are confusing the male value system which isn’t sex. Its how much trouble you are willing to go through to get sex. That you fuck as many as you can implies very strongly you invest very little.
Women are often very pleasant towards genuine nice guys and will gladly spend a few moments on their emotional needs which is about the same 5 minutes you spent with a slut. Value needs to be computed in the native currency of the male sex in which case sperm costs pennies. In the native currency of the female, a hug is worth a kopeck and they spend them on betas all the time.
Damn, I’d rather get the sex. Empathy is cheap.
Comment of the week.
Rcently met an 18 year old in a bar. Talked to her for about ten or fifteen minutes and got some good iois. Lots of touching on her part etc. she sheepishly tells me that she is only 18 and is there w fake id. I made some comment about owning things older than her , but that she was doing ok in talking to adults. At this point she is literally pushing her body against me. We’re standing at the bar and i close my tab. They give me my receipt along w my id and card. She grabs my id and makes a weird face, then comments on how much older than her i am. 33 btw. Not even a chance to mock her comment before she disappears into the crowd. Ghey.
Mistake to let that ID get into her hands. Lesson for next time.
However, this blog needs to help promote a mass main street effort, led by Baby Boomer males with the help of all forward thinking younger males, to stop the ridiculous American idea that even 33 is too old for 18.
Don’t let any younger woman get away with bringing up the subject that you’re too old for them without discussing the concept of who will age faster. It’s not as if you have much to lose when they are definitely going to walk because of their warped conditioning.
At least the guy who comes after you won’t see the scrunched up face. She’ll know it should be as socially unacceptable for a girl to rudely tell a man he’s too old as it would be for a man to laugh off an older woman by telling her to her face that she’s too old. Women not raised in a cultural barn will recognize the man had the right to try and she’ll be tactful.
I’m pretty sure it was feminists who led the idea that 33 is too old for 18. When I was a Gen X-er just starting in the workforce, the Baby Boomer men with money and status at my company had no problem at all tapping women that were even younger than me. IMO it’s the feminist bullshit about “power dynamics” that made women in the USA think their mates had to be the same age.
And a lot of young American women were taught to explicitly chastize older men for trying to get with them, practically taunt them with approbrium and disgust, while it became completely un-pc for a young or old man to directly tell a woman that she was too old. A healthy society would have the opposite dynamic.
I’ve met and banged a 26 year old this year. I’m 46. I DHV’d her and she came onto me. I really didn’t care much. She loved being teased. I think it was the confidence and the not giving a shit. Also for some girls, they like the maturity and the playfullness.
The new ones I’m gaming are in their late 20′s. I usually flirt and do cocky-funny. Then I propose drinks. There’s nothing in that approach that suggest old guy.
Also I’m in shape, tall and have started honing my game to the point where my confidence and ability to parry shit tests sets me apart from other much younger betas.
This is right up my street.
I don’t know what you mean by older men, but when I say older than the girl, I mean way older. When I retired a couple of years ago after a life of wage slavery, I noticed almost immediately great interest from girls of all ages. I was a bit surprised by the growing interest from girls way, way younger than me. You, dear readers, understand that the subconscious of the girls reported to their hamster that here we have a free man who don’t give a shit. Women are animals that can pick subtle clues as to the value of the male.
Perhaps you won’t believe me, but young girls even try to pick me up. And if they handle their cards right they may even succeed.
If you are older, whatever that means, have no fear. All rules of game applies to you as well.
My current girlfriend is 22 and very anxious that I will tire of her. It’s funny to see girls of her own age trying to cockblock me at the same time as they are trying to make me interested in them.
But the best thing of having a girlfriend obviously much younger than you is the hatred in the eyes of bitches 30 years and up. It’s a wonderful feeling to know that they hate you and can do nothing about it.
Whether you believe what I have said or not, let me say this: if you are reasonably in shape (if not, fix it) all that matters is attitude, attitude and more attitude. Did I mention attitude? Don’t get hung up on age. I have seen guys 80 years old having girlfriends 50 years younger, and these were not rich guys, they just sent out a vibe that made the tingle machine work at max capacity.
Almost forgot, don’t try to dress too young. I have noticed that when I wear a nice suit and tie there is frothing about the lips of the bitches in heat.
You are quite correct in the dynamics that take place when dating younger women, with the other women in their social/age grouping. More than a few times after the initial several weeks of fun and frolicking the women will start to get pressure from their “girl-friends” for “dating a man old enough to be your father”. And I’ve had some who are unable to handle it. Of course, then the fun starts because the ones who were most against it, will start making their interest known. Of course, they want to keep it on the down-low – something I nix immediately since “I have more than enough women who want to be seen with me to waste my time on you”. That tends to make them want you more. (Women are so predictable.)
Of course, once it comes out that I’m now with the one who was the biggest detractor, the claws come out and that is when the one-up-man-ship starts. I have seen this a lot more over the last few years – of course, the fact that many of the younger women, never had a “father” growing up helps more than anything. One of the women I’m presently seeing turned 18 only a short time ago, and her social group is doing that to her at the moment. Of course, the fact that she grew up without a father, has trumped all of the negativity she’s getting and she”ll actively tell them, “you’re just jealous that I found him and you didn’t”.
I couldn’t agree with you more about “attitude.” It is what is meant by “being comfortable in your own skin”. And it IS the most important thing when it comes to interacting with women.
21 Direct
greater than 21: Direct
less than 21: Indirect
“The clear bra strap look is not attractive, ladies. If your boobs sag, it’s time to give up on strapless dresses.”
The lack of knowledge on the use of proper undergarments in the young is apalling. A strapless bra, or, if necessary, strapless and backless, is all that is needed to solve this simple problem
http://www.justjared.com/2012/08/20/mary-kate-olsen-moving-in-with-boyfriend-olivier-sarkozy/
“Your comment is awaiting moderation”…. and the moderator is … on vacation …
You go girrrlllllllllll
http://www.justjared.com/2012/08/20/mary-kate-olsen-moving-in-with-boyfriend-olivier-sarkozy/
LOL@ the people who insist that muscles and working out are the way to a woman’s heart. Talk about being innocent and naive. Women don’t care about bodies. Your ability to attract women is a function of how attractive your face is.
Failing that, your money is the only other thing that matters.
Feeling and looking fit redounds to a man’s entire persona and the confidence he exudes.
I don’t think anyone here is saying you merely have to be fit… but don’t go 180 and say it doesn’t matter.
I’m sure there are many here who can vouch for the same reaction when I say I’ve gotten more than one ‘come hither’ look from a woman after she first gazed admiringly at my torso.
Don’t get me wrong. Being fit certainly helps, provided you have a handsome face. Otherwise, it’s a waste of time. Your confidence comes from being physically attractive.
I think we’ve all seen men with less-than-stellar faces exude charm, charisma, and pull a truckload of birds.
I’ve witnessed with my own eyes dozens of times, let alone the ample evidence in the MSM.
One particular instance which sticks in my mind (and was probably my first epiphany in re game) was seeing late twenties/early thirties-something women (the only women in the attendance at this particular conference venue at the time… professional folks) flock to an in-his-sixties Jake La Motta (he was “closing the show”, as it were) and gush like schoolgirls. The man was short, looked like a troll, face-wise, and could barely string together a coherent sentence.
Jake LaMotta is a bad example. He’s an international celebrity who became rich and famous when he was younger and better-looking. Try finding someone without the looks, money and/or status.
This was a good decade after Raging Bull… and well after La Motta’s wealth had dried up completely and fame just a furlong away… to the point where he was earning ham and egg money to say a few words at the closing of (of all things) a conference on computer security.
But point taken, he WAS famous back in the fifties and his not-so-admirable life was immortalized at the start of the eighties by Scorsese.
Still, that was just one glaring example that stuck in my mind… I’ve seen plenty others of the not-so-famous, and there have been numerous tales here at the chateau of men not all that handsome and nowhere near being well-off scoring with women night and day.
Also, it’s been my experience that women focus more on the eyes alone than on the entire phiz.
Actually, it’s the midface, i.e. the lower two-thirds of the face that women focus on. Everything else is just noise. Don’t be fat.
Can’t agree… bedroom eyes is the expression.
That’s what the women are always gushing over… the MSM is even reporting it about Ryan, fer cryin’ out loud, in re the womens vote..
I bet you a hundred bucks all those men with “bedroom eyes” that women supposedly gush over have cute faces as a prerequisite.
“Cute” is a relative term… Donnie Osmond or George Clooney or Humphrey Bogart?
Anyway, your contention was that women focus on the mouth and jaw (bottom-third).
I’m sure there are “studies” somewhere to be found on the internet to corroborate all manners of “what women look for/at”.
But all I ever hear about is eyes, from the innumerable media outlets common parlance (the aforementioned popular express)… as well as from the ladies in my life.
Check that, you said “lower two thirds”, so I guess I should say, cheeks, mouth, and jaw.
I practice ‘Attention Game’.
I refuse to give the women any attention. Not even eye contact. I ignore women/girls completely. Then sit back and watch the melt down. The reactions by females at the grocery store, for example, as I push my cart by them not even acknowledging their existence, are especially hilarious. Shock and dismay on their part. Like they’ve grown up expecting, and have come to rely upon, every guy checking them out.
There is definitely some sort of energy vibe that woman/girls feed off. Like sexual vampires they need to be continuously replenished with the psychic energy (attention) of men. Or it’s like they start starving to death or something. Get desperate.
Anyone else ever noticed that?
Non-attention game… why, that’s just crazy enough to work!
In a woman’s prison…
With a pocketful of pardons.
/just havin’ a little fun with ya, bro!
If you are the old guy in the college club the “easy lay-up” opener for any girl, no matter how attractive, is to ask her questions about the club; as if its your first time there.
The older guy can always pull that off.
You can segway from there into asking about them, or talking about yourself; or better yet, asking them to dance if you get the DJ to play some better music (go ahead fellas, you can use that one, just don’t play no Rick James, thats my tune for grindin)
I admit not understanding this thing about rude or mean girls acting annoyed or angry when you approach them, especially to a total stranger; that must be direct game?
The only direct game I use is the direct NEG because when its a good one, they can’t get mad, they hafta laugh cause its so good.
Yes, this is “indirect game”, but just talking to girls means you are halfway there, because no matter what she says,
I guarrentee at least one other girl is watching you do it.
Tally HO gentlemen.
With a handsome face (and your face is the primary indicator of physical attractiveness), you can do and say anything you want. No game needed. You could be a nose-picking retard, a heroin junkie with track marks all over his arms or have full-blown Tourette’s syndrome, but as long as you have good facial proportions, women will drop their panties without thinking twice.
It’s only creepy when he’s ugly. Carry on, gentlemen.
More girly projections. Male looks =/= Female looks.
And you haven’t been around the block. There are no ugly, broke guys of any age who can pick up anything.
Game also doesn’t help you walk on water…
OT: A friend told me about this today. Despite how this article portrays it, I think its a good idea (as long as the girls aren’t on birth control).
http://living.msn.com/love-relationships/love-sex/bizarre-dating-fad-pheromone-parties
I only shower once a week. I’ll mail you my panties.
Am honestly considering growing the beard out again….
I hung out with the the Indigo Girls before they got on TV. They are two far gone lesbians from Athens Georgia who play their own kind of music The thing is, when they/we were deep into a song., all that stuff sort of went away. The word “ecstasy” has been polluted by its association with a silly drug. But there is a reason that I remain an optimist and it has to do with that. I mean, there is a place beyond the hopeless dys-connection of the genders and a good way to get there is … music; shared.
I do not know what K.T. Tunstall fucks when she is in the mood. But listen to/watch her do her cover of. Dylans “Tangled Up in Blue”.
Something about is just true and right and redemptive.
FWIW, USA Today had an article promoting the new film, utterly forgettable, done by Dax Shepherd and Kristin Bell. Shepherd is 5 years her senior, had as he pointed out a “Scumbaggy” reputation (his words), Bell was quick to defend him as “experimental” and also seemed to love the height difference.
Lesson: the hottest girls want guys who are somewhat sleazy, and much taller than they are. Drug addictions, lots of exes, a plus. So too, a non-trivial age difference. Just as good an alternative to the Clooney model is the Shepherd model, particularly if you can fake the drug addictions, exes, and present a high-functioning “lots of sleazebag problems” image. Also target smaller women, the taller you are the better.
There is probably (seriously) a business opportunity here, a ‘make you a sleazebag’ service that will convince women you are the Shepherd model. While of course you remain the sane and sober and employed you. Women LOVE LOVE LOVE drama.