A lot of readers write here asking for game advice and offering screen shots of their texts and chats with women for critical judgment by the Eye of Mordant. For example, see this latest chat screen from a man trying to get a date with a petite looker. (The man talks first.)
While Heartiste is happy to oblige any and all pilgrims to the Chateau, these readers could perform an at-home test that would save them some time and frustration waiting for an answer. A simple trick to determine the tightness of your chat game is to role reverse the participants. Commenter Christian explains,
If you reverse the responses in the online chat example, which I did inadvertently when I first read it, its tight game.
HER: Just promise you wont dress like a 12 year old boy on the first date, deal?
HIM: What makes you think there will be a first date?
HER: Well i’m not convinced yet blah blah blah…
HIM: That’s fair. let me know how that goes out for you.
But now that I know the roles were actually reversed, its beyond salvageable. Next.
Comparing the first chat and its bizarro world inverse, there’s little doubt that the second one is more likely to achieve a carnal coda, both because the girl will be more aroused and the man will have more power leading the interaction to a date. In the role reversal chat, it’s the man who’s subcommunicating aloofness, challenge, and an authentic attitude of outcome independence.
Ask yourself, who’s sitting in the driver’s seat? In the first chat, the girl is in control. Role reverse it and the man becomes the driver of the courtship. If your game sucks, try role reversing everything you do, except in real life and not just as a post-rejection self-assessment exercise. Think Opposite George. Report back to us with the results, Or do the opposite, and don’t.
That first line is cringe worthy enough.
You make comments about what you and her actually see…not some hypothetical. If she actually dressed like a 12 year old boy on a date you are actually on…then go ahead and fire a neg if you feel like it.
Women don’t get hypotheticals…even when they present one.
as explained earlier her profile said she often dresses like 12 year old boy
Indeed…then my first stament is retracted.
Instead…that was a huge red flag and doesn’t surprise me how that interaction went. She is anything but safe or normal.
The first line is actually pretty tight for a girl that’s an 8 or above. It illicited a reply from the girl so mission accomplished.
Being outsmarted by a woman doesn’t lead to sex…That selection bias smells like trouble for certain would views.
Zombie Shane’s One and Only Rule of Romance Between the Sexes:
A WOMAN WILL NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER SETTLE DOWN WITH A MAN WHO HAS A LOWER IQ THAN SHE.
That’s one of the fundamental differences between men and women.
Dudes will settle down with bitches who have slightly lesser IQs, if, say, the bitch brings a cheerful sunny disposition, some nice big mammaries, some talent in the kitchen, and, of course, massive amounts of talent in the bedroom.
Bitches, on the other hand, will NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER settle down with a dude who has a lesser IQ.
NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER.
Will. Not. Happen.
PS: It’s also why you see so many dykes in the STEM fields – those very rare chicks whose IQs are high enough to succeed in STEM have an insanely difficult time trying to find dudes who are smarter than they.
Especially since the probability that they are both that smart and also HB8/HB9/HB10 material is roughly
(probability of STEM IQ) X (probability of HB8/HB9/HB10)
(1 / 1,000,000) X (1 / 10,000) = 1 / 10 BILLION
And there are only about 6 billion people on the planet to begin with.
So being rather homely and flabby and often sporting mild mustaches with large moles on their faces, they give up trying to find a man, and they settle for shacking up with other bitches.
But they’d damn sure take the High IQ dick if it were offered.
1:1.000.000 seems extravagently hyperinflated. Just think about it!
Roughly 300,000,000 people in the USA.
Roughly 150,000,000 women in the USA.
Roughly 150 women who deserve to be working in STEM [without any quota hire set-asides whatsoever] in the USA.
You think it’s only 15, rather than 150?
So 1-in-10,000,000?
That was my original thought, too, but then I decided that maybe that was just a little too cruel.
[Yeah, White Knight and whatnot…]
“What makes you think there will be a first date?”
-Because I just said so.
Hey I like going with the truth. Hard to be outsmarted by a woman when you use that.
“I bake.” From When a Man Loves a Woman (2:30 in the video) ; the first scene is awesome game. Of course, Andy Garcia’s and Meg Ryan’s characters are already married and are just kidding around, but the lines presented by Garcia’s character are great.
Compare with the first guy who tries to pick her up by trying to impress her. “I read for a living”. This scene is like a quick standard reminder of how to keep the conversation playful and interesting. A date, or a cold open, should be about entertaining her.
Her question is so sarcastic,, or maybe it’s just a request for information, but it can be given a sincere answer.
“What makes you think there will be a first date?”
“Because I have so much to offer.”
“Like what?”
“Wait and see.”
It’s necessary to assume some level of non-hostility. If she’s really just trying to give you shit, rather than just a shit test, there is nothing to do but move on.
Boomer alert.
She’s probing for information. He mentioned a first date in his first line…and then retracted it in the second line. He didn’t stand up for what he mentioned. It is little things like this that women shit test all the time and more men should be aware of that.
Anything that states you believe in yourself that you don’t question or doubt what you just said is better than trying to soften the blow of a possible rejection. That displays strength and truth.
What about no question marks. “Don’t do this. Deal?” seems worse than “Don’t do this”
“What makes you think there will be a first date?”
-You’re practically in my pants already.
“That’s fair. let me know how that goes out for you.”
-ill tell you after breakfast.
[CH: good reply. classic agree&lify.]
I really like this.
Opposite George strikes again! There was a time, long ago, in my career when I had to employ the Opposite George rules. It was an office full of women, with most management positions being occupied by women. Good god, that was a nightmare.
Yeah, looks like okcupid. While you have to do some chatting early on and check your brevity at the door (like the 90/10 rule for approaching), she gave an opportunity to set the frame by merely responding. In fact, her negative response actually shows some interest. I find when girls respond in a nice passive way they are usually less interested.
I don’t do online game – I’m a diehard Day Gamer by nature – but my impression is that if you get ANY RESONSE AT ALL WHATSOEVER – then The Poontang is already yours to lose.
The problem is that so many dudes just retreat back into betatude and let The Poontang slip right out of their hands.
So if you really want The Poontang – and, more importantly, if you really deserve The Poontang – then when she goes Dark, you go DARKER.
Her: Blah blah blah… Darkness… blah blah blah…
You: Blah blah blah… DARKERNESS… blah blah blah…
Prove to her that not matter how hard she tries, your will is stronger than her will, and that she will never break you.
But when the statistics show that bitches get like 20 or 30 or 50 [???] times the number of messages that dudes get at these online sites, then any message which you receive is proof of her interest.
From that point, The Poontang is yours to lose.
PS: “Darker” does not mean humorless.
“Darker” does not mean the absence of playfulness.
“Darker” does not mean bleak or barren or forlorn.
Maybe a better adjective might be “edgy”?
Her: Blah blah blah… edgy bitchy cattiness… blah blah blah…
You: Blah blah blah… edgier alpha envelope-pushing-ness… blah blah blah…
Just don’t back down.
Don’t retreat.
The best defense is a good offense.
Carpe the Diem.
That’s the attitude you need.
“not matter” = no matter
i take back my initial response and say this is a trick question, online dating is pointless beyond harpooning landwhales. and anti alpha.
this is a genius move, but I have a hard time applying it to myself because I seriously cant imagine a girl being as assertive and direct as I. probably have to work more on my indirect game
Opposite George is hilarious.
And be sure to throw in something about, “Otherwise the little boy is heading straight to his bedroom, where Daddy is gonna give him a nice hard spanking.”
Work the “spanking” shit in there as soon as possible – front and center.
You have a point; you can be this upfront after a long text discussion with her.
And ONLY after a long discussion with her.
The problem is if she’s playing the naughty little girl from the beginning just to elicit such ‘spanky’ responses from you. Your responses will make her, and her friends, giggle. The ploy continues, you get more invested in her …
until she just disappears …
Then yer fucked. So what to do then ?
Be devious. Screw around with her head :
… I am going to pull you over my lap … and then … and only then … am I going to do something to you … that will make you roar like a lion … and then try to wriggle quietly away … like a porn-actor-speaker at a conference for militant geriatric nymphomaniacal feminist cucumber growers … uttering words that’s Shakespearean in breadth … Orwellian in depth … Hegelian in math … like an opium bath … why my deary darling … I am going to apply a bumper sticker on your ass …
You know she’s been thinking about spanking, and yet somehow you disappointed her … and teased her as well.
So she’ll either not respond to such a missive, which means the woman in question is just too stoopid to respond … do you really want such a woman by the way ? She just failed YOUR shit-test dammit.
… or she’ll try and call you out on it. What do you say then ?
You mean you’d rather be spanked ? My mother warned me against girls like you … which means my grandma is gonna like you a lot.
And here you can draw her in discussing family history and whatnot. You can share your views on life. No hate though, when you talk about your views on life. Give off a stoic vibe. Women dig a man that is familiar with suffering, endures it, faces it, laughs at it, and cries when nobody sees him … sad but true.
When she’s sassy with you again, just mention that you’re gonna shop for bumper stickers the following day.
She’ll get the message.
And don’t forget to tease her.
Never forget to tease her … and remember not to overdo it.
That’s how one gets a good woman.
That sounds nice and all….but to think of that requires great creativity and thinking of it on the spot can be a challenge.
I think you could find a very nice gentleman to take you on a second or third date, depending on the type. ”
(stop the chase).
The goal should be to continue the conversation , but primary based on the principle that you do not want to date her, but that she would be perfect for a really nice guy, maybe even a friend of yours , she would be perfect for”
Only way to save it, and its a long shot.
A few girls in my social circle are on various online sites, Tinder, OK Cupid, Match. I have seen first hand how online dating warps the minds of lower tier women. Uncanny. Online dating is akin to virtual reality. In the virtual world a 6 gets the attention normally relegated to the 9-10 women. They transfer this mentality to the real world, where they now believe they are “above” certain levels of men. The delusion is often irreversible.
Online dating cannot work because of the hamster’s unfairness and inability to ever accept any blame for anything. As anyone who has been dumped by a girl knows (almost all of us–even most of you alphas are not naturals and were dumped at some point by a carousel rider in your 20s, before you discovered red pill), at the end, during the final bad last few days or weeks, the woman is able to remember every bad thing the man did, none of the good things, and none of the bad things she did or said. I was discussing this with a buddy and we (correctly) concluded:
1. being on an online dating site automatically marks the man as “beta.” Automatically. The man is automatically a beta from the start if he’s on match.com looking for a relationship. The man is automatically “chasing” and looks like he wants an LTR or more;
2. the woman SUBCONSCIOUSLY holds that strike against the man, so the man starts out at -1 (minus 1) simply by meeting her through match or POF or OKC, EVEN THOUGH the woman herself, obviously, is also on the dating site (hamster cannot recognize things the woman does “wrong”);
3. EVEN IF the man is smooth enough to get replies and real world meetups–which is easily doable if the man is attractive and has a cool enough profile (*)–when the “date” happens, the SUBCONSCIOUS -1 that the man is starting out with is in the back of the woman’s mind; and
4. As stated above, yes, any woman who is not a land yacht gets way too much validation on the dating sites. But also she finds herself disappointed with herself and her (unknown) subconscious hypergamous instinct to want an alpha asshole. Because indeed most men on a dating site are going to be beta, greater beta at best, and they will be gentlemen on a beta styled date, OR they will be omega total creepoid losers (woman will have met a few of those and will be starting out in a, frankly, bad mood about the date from the start).
(*) Lest anyone think this is my personal anecdote bitterness, I was on match for only 3 months and, without spending too much effort, was able to get tons of replies and meet about six women in real life (could have met more if I wanted and had the time), all of whom were HB7 or HB8 (for realz–thin and pretty, all of them). I found (a) that they did not misrepresent themselves in the pics–they were as hot or hotter in real life as in the pics and (b) some of them resulted in “the start” of something and they were actually getting closer to beta bux stage–in other words, with about 4 of them I had more than one and between 3 and in one case about 12 follow-up dates, make-outs, boob grabbing, sleeping over but not PIV sex in a few cases, and these girls were like *almost* hooked by my greater beta game, they wanted to be able to let themselves like the beta, BUT in the end I swear the automatic negative 1 I started out with was just too much for their hamster to handle. Two of them were quite articulate in their ability to basically tell me that they were essentially pissed at themselves (their subconscious hypergamy) and can’t understand themselves why they are not chasing me because I’m awesome (more than the LJBF rejection of a creeper who’s way below them…I’m an 8 but for my being divorced with kids who I pay for).
Lest you disagree, CH himself has written about how all the hypergamy stuff is subconscious/biological; women really do believe or want to believe in their conscious brains in the “wow how amazing we met at the bookstore!!!!” fantasy “fate” idea. Day game talks about saying “how strange that we just met here!” to help ease them into accepting it. Doing anything other than finding a girl who really does just want to bang (I have not found one that my game is good enough for) is doomed from the start on the dating sites. (**)
(**) Also negging as an opener is very very very rarely a good tactic on the dating sites. These beta women (ready for beta bux) have convinced themselves that they now want “chivalry” and are able to be offended by a neg in an email–not the same as having the balls to neg an HB8 at a bar in real life.
Two of them were quite articulate in their ability to basically tell me that they were essentially pissed at themselves (their subconscious hypergamy) and can’t understand themselves why they are not chasing me because I’m awesome (more than the LJBF rejection of a creeper who’s way below them…I’m an 8 but for my being divorced with kids who I pay for).
Maybe you actually have a -2 handicap…
http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/258879/dating-dos-and-donts-1940s/
Lol, he starts out TRYING to reverse roles already. She doesn’t go for it, but he keeps trying the same thing anyway = no calibration = failure.
‘Her:: What makes you think there will be a first date?’
This is actually really good for him. Problem? Oh yeah, he’s completely uncalibrated and fails to understand where’s at in the interaction. He has failed to DHV, and so the whole ‘screening’ bullshit he tries goes down in flames.
Better:
HIM: You seem like a X, Y, Z/chick-crack person, and I get along with them.
or
HIM: The fact that you’d ask that instead of why I’d think you’d dress like a boy. Fate brought us here.
Ya, it’s great when they’re insta-chasing you or whatever, but that’s not reality for 98% of men.
Scray, assuming it was you and you said everything he said in his chat (tho i know you wouldnt have) do you think it is salvagable/ you could possibly turn it around?
Im thinking there would be a chance..for the skilled player
Kind of along the same lines as if an attractive feminist (a stretch i know) was verbally attacking you…spewing out her venom about something you said..calling you names..screaming.. as you take it calmly and she finishes her rant with, “You must be single.”
And you reply, “Why, do you want a date?”
Her: “Lol..wut? wtf? lol ” ***gina tingle**attitude adjustment***
Hmmmm…..
HER: That’s fair. let me know how that goes out for you.
Well, I probably would have dropped the corny overgame shit at this point and reversed course for more rapport-seeking.
Me: Ha, I’m just messing around….it’s how I get to know people I think could be cool
-or-
Me: Not gonna lie, it’s not going well so far lol. Give me another chance, pretty pretty please? I have your favorite candy.
-or-
Me: lol that’s cold. You should be nice to special needs people, not mean.
So why Scray, why are you doing this?
You have to screen her good. Sometimes chicks will be cunty toward you because you’re putting out WAY TOO MUCH of a player/douche vibe. If you just throttle off a bit, they give you a chance…then you can play with the ‘no I’m nice, no wait I’m an asshole’ vibe later.
Now, why would I think that’d be the case here?
Because she took the time to respond to him and react to him at all. If they aren’t interested AT ALL 99.9% of the time they just don’t acknowledge you.
Play with her expectations — play into them for as long as is convenient, and then…when you’ve grabbed the power (you’ll sense it…with some of them it’s a laugh, with others a kiss, and with others you gotta bone)….bust through those expectations.
best move…
lol, wow that’s cold! you’re wittier than you look, lol. I’m actually kind of impressed.
– shows you took it in stride, while most guys would get flustered
– shows she exceeded your expectations for her
– extends an olive brand because this interaction needs rapport-fixing, not one-upmanship via insults, or more social proof via showcasing your wit.
and you can re-initiate after this because even if she doesn’t respond immediately because she won’t view you as hostile.
Awesome info..totally agree
Ya, may be a matter of preference. That response is still a little tryhard to me. I mean…lol, I’m -not- impressed, and she’s -not- wittier than she looks.
Congruence is king. Depends on how you’re feeling though — if I were in a good mood, I could see using this.
just pivot off of that and immediately follow up and say…
“your picture still makes me want to get you drunk and drag you to a motel lol”
you have no choice but to diffuse the situation. pat her on the head, tell her nice one, you got me, and then say let’s fuck in an interesting way.
I get where you’re going but at this stage in the interaction I’d just drop the lol-y stuff for a few messages. I understand that that stuff looks cooler to dudes or on the jumbotron, but as far as mileage, pulling back on that for a bit can yield great results too.
I just don’t think we’re in a place where she’s even open to, or appreciating, our jokes. I agree with diffusing the situation…I’d just do it with less C&F.
Good, except the “lol”. I never get “lol”. Are you actually “laughing” “out loud”? Is it really that funny? Of course not. People write “lol” everywhere, and it just looks stupid. Unless the brain is shut off to the point where people don’t think of what they are reading, which happens too often. (Like how people unthinkingly accept “troops” instead of the too-warlike-sounding “soldiers” in a news piece. “Two troops were injured”. Why not just call a guy a “platoon” and get it over with? But I digress.)
Scray, I am not too much of a pro with this stuff yet, but I don’t understand why a girl would be turned off by a player/douchey vibe?
I once approached a girl who was sitting on a bench and finishing up some food, so I opened up with “Let me finish that”. We started talking and she introduced herself as “Jane” and without blinking an eye I introduce myself as “Tarzan”. I continue playing with this theme saying that we should run away deep into a jungle in Africa and together we will build a cabin by the sea, we will hunt antelope and gazelle and I will protect her from lions, etc.
During the course of our conversation, she was laughing, touching me on the arm, etc. But when I tried to get her number she didn’t want to give it to me and I got the impression that it was from being too smooth.
Furthermore, I have had girls tell me I’m way too smooth and because of that they don’t want to go out with me/give me their number, etc.
I always thought that having a player/douchey vibe was a DHV as it shows you know your way around girls.
I didn’t say it was a turnoff. I said they would act cunty toward you because of it. Chicks dig players but once they get burned a time or too they put up a bit of a fight.
Once you reach a critical mass of attraction that won’t matter, but in the early phases you should get her to let down her guard.
If you go too heavy with the overconfident playa guy routine, you’ll get shut down more than you think.
It’s an art. Be subtle.
Rick, Scray is a self-admitted short crybaby beta males that has trouble getting girls. He frequently posts text exchanges where he crashes and burns with women that he refers to as “mini heart break girl”
His advice is as useful to us as pajama boy’s advice on how to get big at the gym.
Rick, there are a lot of people analyzing social interaction and advising techniques based mythology. Scray has a solid understanding of how attraction work and real, applied social dynamics. Scray’s advice is usually quite insightful, to the chagrin of the poster above, it seems. No idea what bone he has to pick with Scray lol.
RE: key logger tweet
I can highly recommend any man to install a key logger on his own computer, just to see what girls get up to when you’re taking a shower. I have had more than one girl in my house who would swoop down on my laptop the moment I turn on the shower and go over my browser history, facebook, photos etc with the efficiency of an experienced forensic detective, only to be back on the couch, blinking innocently, the moment I turn off the water.
Doesn’t surprise me.
It is the modern day medicine cabinet.
Excellent advice.
Make sure she can easily find some semi-innocent pictures of you with some much hotter women.
Yeah it can be a great tool for those running a dash of Dread Game
I posted about briefcase zippers below. It’s a fun game. I had placed some innocent pics of me and other women in there (usually trade show booth girls) and it worked wonders on my other zippers.
And I recommend guys read that book. Best 9 bucks I’ve spent in a while.
It will crush any remaining blue pill you have left in you.
I haven’t seen said tweet about keyloggers, though I do know of two other guys who had girlfriends go through computers and the like. And one definitely has something on his phone.
Fuck that shit, invade my privacy and I’ll kick your skanky ass through the ceiling. I even take a dim view if she starts getting insecure about texts that I receive.
Which book are you talking about? I’m up for getting something new to crush the beta maggot in me.
http://mattforney.com/2014/01/08/the-key-logger-a-forbidden-glimpse-into-the-true-nature-of-women-by-nicholas-jack/
It comes down to this: if you let them, all girls will become sluts. Not necessarily physical sluts, but emotional sluts, seeking masculine attention like a crackhead financing his addiction by holding up gas stations.
Again, with the physical-male/emotional-female dichotomy, the alpha female with a horde of beta suckup orbiters is like an alpha male with a harem of FWBs.
Adding on to this, an alpha female who has landed a valuable alpha male but still has a horde of beta suckup orbiters is like an alpha male with both a prime wife that he loves and a harem of mistresses.
Wow, how true. I set the zippers on my briefcase a certain way so I know if my wife has rummaged through it. Needless to say, the zippers were never the way I left them.
Good stuff. This teaches men to do things a certain way and remember it. In case some “invader” has other plans.
Then when she starts making accusations…you can expose her nosiness.
Many men have no idea how women find out these things about them…..those are some of the tricks of the trade.
That is why I have two log-ins to my computer. Whenever a girl is at my place and I am playing music on the computer, I use the innocent-looking log-in with a clean browser history and no downloads she shouldn’t see. This after a girl many years ago snooped through my computer and was put off by seeing porn URLs.
Grading Barack Obama
B+
Mostly just playing his role. A level of universal health care is a valid issue. For example, the Social Security Administration carries on varied relationships with each of the states based on the level of rights the states have claimed for themselves.
The only things that get shouted down publicly are realistic forces. Sovietism was only bad, bad, bad, because it is, on some level, inevitable.
F- Breaking the law should put you in jail. Breaking the Fourth Amendment not one time but millions of times by searching people’s mail with no warrant and probable cause should be enough to get you executed, along with all your stooges in that chain of command. In the British Empire people were indeed executed for opening someone else’s mail. To think that Americans’ privacy was protected more in the old Empire than in the new “democratic” one.
All presidents and meaningful authority figures get F-s and the discussion is moot. Fun.
How about ignoring and/or illegally modifying various laws?
Heartiste,
Any tips on how to get GF to go A2M? Email response is fine if you don’t want to get into it here.
Thanks.
[CH: “I’ve had this fantasy for so long, ever since this girl I used to date brought it up…” is a good way to broach the subject. Girls don’t want to feel like they’re the debbie downers who aren’t as sexually exciting as your exes.
ps anti-troll psa: fucking a girl in the ass is not the same as gay male sex. If you look just a little past the bunghole, you’ll notice that the attached body doesn’t resemble a man’s body at all.]
Ok I looked past the bunghole…it’s not the same. And yet the rectum in both sexes does the same thing.
[CH: So don’t fuck her ass while she’s turtling.]
“And yet the mouth in both sexes does the same thing when you are kissing”. Read up on why men and women are attracted to each other, even while not every part of them is completely different to that of the other sex.
depends where you are in your relationship. do you have rapport with your girl where you can be super dominant and it’s ok? will she let you call her a piece of shit whore when you’re fucking her? are you able to spit in her mouth or slap her in her face (try lightly first) while you fuck her? she has to accept your identity as a dominant sexual partner in order to do something like A2M. if that’s not established, incorporating baby steps of dominantion like trash talking, spitting and slapping little by little into your sex will get her open to A2M, as long as she’s comfortable with being that level of submissive. I personally think she may get wigged out by the idea if you verbalize. like I could never tell a shy lover “let’s try spitting in your mouth”, but if we’ve established that I’m dominant, I can call her a whore and spit in her mouth at the right moment when we’re fucking and she’s going to orgasm real quick. also, it’s kind of incongruent to be like “I’d like your permission to try a dominant sex act I have no experience with on you”. That would be more appropriate for a role play situation, in my opinion.
This!
Although “where you are in the relationship” is irrelevant, you should start this shit since day 1, or don’t start it at all.
This^^^ : absolutely have to start out in a frame where dominance is your thing. You don’t have to slip it in her ass the first time, but telling her she belongs to you and you’re going to fuck all her holes is apropos. Even if you don’t. Sets her expectations for sexy-time. See also Xsplat http://xsplat.wordpress.com for some interesting dominance plays.
Not interested, and it has nothing to do with gay sex. It has to do with shit.
OT.
Breaking News: President Obama did not know about something happening under his watch.
Obama: It is you who say I knew something.
http://vimeo.com/83997403
When women embrace barbaric behaviors from another culture, then it all points to the free falling descent of civilization.
With that said, I would still bang. Catch me poolside.
[CH: Jesus boned. And then he wept.]
daddys little angels….all of em
CH don’t forget the post about meeting the girl’s family. hasnt really been specifically touched on in detail. juuust sayin
[CH: I’ll keep this short. If you’re meeting the girl’s family, you’re already knee deep in an LTR, (or you should be, otherwise why did you agree to meet her parents?). In this scenario, you’ll want to please her father more than her, so amp the beta and the loving lovitude.
PS: there is an exception for girls who have an antagonistic relationship with their fathers. In those cases, winning over the father can actually turn off your girlfriend.
PPS: Mothers are largely irrelevant in these calculations, except insofar as they are like older versions of your girlfriend whom you should charm and game just the same.]
Word. Makes sense. The reason I ask for analysis is cause I’m an ecto lol. buuuuut, I ran into her and her mother unexpected and it seemed her mother heard about me before from the girl (“ive heard so much about you”. This girl is a young 8.5 that is possibly out of my league? But Ive followed this blog closely. The reason I ask is because I grew up with three sisters, and I know that when a guy leaves after visiting, the family talks about him with or without the girl (so after I ran into them they left and talked about me going home). If you’re too beta then the parents say ohhh he seems like a very nice guy (beta) and that could subconciously turn the girl off a little. I almost think that it is best to avoid situations with her family as much as possible. With my ex-gf a while back there was some damn good sex after I had a one-on-one hang out/got a beer with her father. But, normally raised girls will see their father as an alpha so that interaction can be tricky. I kinda noticed from my family that the guys who get along the best (as in “hanging out” and acting as a friend to siblings etc.) were the ones who maybe looked more invested or beta to the girl and actually ended up turning the girl off. My outlook is this: avoid long interactions with her family as much as possible. Almost be a challenge (aloof and indifferent) to her family because they will continue with “we want to meet him” or they gather an idea of he is a high value man hard to get at. I’m just blabbering now. PS your blog and these topics are very intriguing. it’s actually driving me a little crazy…? tips on helping ectomorphs from overanalysis but still quality analysis would be a beneficial post to everyone too b/c the majority here probably are ecto’s seeing as we are all analyzing lol. Thanks, bro?
I suspect guys are a lot more impressed with muscles than girls are. Girls are more interested in the bony frame including height.
I don’t know about the family meeting situation, reading what CH writes now I did it about as he says with my wife’s family, but that wasn’t by any sort of planning.
I do know this. No girl is out of any guy’s league. If a guy can get a girl just from having money (boy have I seen that happen) then you could add another attractor in place of money. Guys’ SMV is more under their control than girls’ is. Guys can adjust their smell by, say, a nice cologne. Girls cannot adjust their appearance very much.
If the family is talking this much about you, it may be your game now to lose. Do you want her? Then propose.
I’m not for all this ultra long getting to know you relationship bullshit. Get on with it.
It’s not the money. It’s what the money allows you to do — dominate. Girls can adjust their appearance by being non-fat (it’s really a big deal).
Girls like muscles. They’re a huge add to your attractiveness — I’m not saying muscles are necessary, but facts are facts. If you lift and get low on bf, you have the facial improvements, the muscle improvements, and the T improvement = tons of great stuff for a guy.
The problem with them tho is that you get them and your standards rise and you’re back to square 1 —> all the new girls you want are being chased by a bunch of dudes who have muscles lol.
The problem with them tho is that you get them and your standards rise and you’re back to square 1 —> all the new girls you want are being chased by a bunch of dudes who have muscles lol.
I have solved this problem. I can assure you that after I have started weightlifting my standards have remained as low as ever. It’s a philosophical thing, I promise.
I just haven’t seen it pay off in visible results. I don’t see hot girls out with guys with bulging muscles. I see very muscular men with 5′s. Now if a guys has muscles from being a pro athlete, sure, but not from what you can accomplish in the gym.
I think it makes you feel better and boosts your T. But then you’ve got to keep lifting or it turns soft.
Over in Asia, I saw the hottest women with fat ugly guys wearing fat gold chains. The top businessmen didn’t wear fat gold chains, they looked like conventional businessmen and did not even have the hottest looking wives. This was more thug style, and gold is magnetic when it comes to pussy, there it was at least.
Ya you see muscular men with 5′s because of my comment above. Like….if you walk into a bar with muscles, you have to do no work to get a 5. None. You will bang her that night. Guaranteed.
The hotter girls are less impressed because every guy chasing them has muscles.
And yeah, you do have to keep lifting….lol so? It’s a lifestyle choice. Don’t do it just for pussy.
Well OK that makes some sense.
But how long can you lift? Arnold Schwarzenegger doesn’t lift and is fat. And he has all the healthcare coverage to ensure that he gets back in ghe gym whenever he wants.
Charles Atlas lived to a ripe old age, I think. But he didn’t lift weights supposedly. He had a “dynamic tension” system that doesn’t use weights, and I still do some of those whenever I feel like it. You can do them in the train or in the office. It’s surely slower for building the bulk though.
Like….if you walk into a bar with muscles, you have to do no work to get a 5.
A guy walks into a bar with muscles.
“Muscles?” he exclaims. “I wanted mussels!”
Bada-bom, bish!
Seriously though, I’m gonna shame you all into picking up dumbbells and barbells and checking out the basic weightlifting routines over at bodybuilding.com’s forum. Look at this guy, just look at him:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-evolution-change-within-weeks-transformation-in-mere-months/
From doughy to sculptured. I deeply respect this, because I know it takes work. And as for game, of course it’s not all there is to it, but having an athletic body most definitely helps.
Look at this woman:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/you-want-to-eat-like-a-hunter-gatherer
She skipped the wheat and picked up the dumbbells, fat loss then comes naturally. This is what you want to do, boys and girls alike, no goddamn jogging that reduces muscle mass, pancakes your ass and causes stress hormone and hunger. Squats and lunges with dumbbells or barbells in your hands are the building blocks for sexy buttocks, for men and women alike. (Don’t think women don’t notice.)
And finally:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-fat-burning-beast
She is forty-five, he is forty. They have bodies better than most twenty-somethings. In the Before picture you can only see their faces, but you can tell how the doughiness has turned to awesomeness.
An attractive body that beats more than 90 percent of the competition, that is what you get from weightlifting done the right way. You also feel more energetic and self-assured. And you prevent back pains in your old age, which I guarantee you would have otherwise. Same as with dental floss to preserve your teeth, start preparing now.
Weightlifting isn’t everything in game, but it is a strong factor. If you aren’t improving your body, your most important tool, how can you expect for the rest of your game to make up for that? Lift weights, it is fun and it is very good for you. I know it was good for me to start with this.
[CH: It is not enough to pursue the swole. One must *be* the swole.]
Thanks for your reply to my question in your “How to game Attention Whores” post Heartiste. I just saw it and noticed quite a few people asking for pics of the girl getting kissed, so I though it would be interesting to show:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/713/85i6.jpg
It was labelled with “cute lol” on fb.
Let me know what you think.
Goofy pic, not a sexy pic. Do you know for sure it’s not her brother?
Yeah I’m pretty sure.
I don’t know how to edit posts, so sorry for the double post. I forgot to add, why do you ask if its her brother, is it important?
Sure. If he was her brother, it means she’s just goofing with you in an amiable way, and the door would still be open.
But he’s not. The pic doesn’t change my take of your situation. She’s fucking around with you and has no intentions other than playing head games and laughing about you with her bf. Contrary to another commenter above, I really don’t think this is a case where what she really wants is to see more beta attainability from you. If things change, update us. I’m curious where this plane is gonna land/crash.
Photoshop your face onto her body in that pic and send it back. At a minimum it’ll annoy her bf.
+1 for fun.
@mercifulboss
objectively, this is a very average looking chick. don’t kick yourself if you don’t bang her. many other women to talk to.
I haven’t given this as much thought as many others here, but a girl who sends that kind of pic is a bitch. Enough said.
@darkhorse..
I likes your style brother. When I’m not feeding her brain sex thoughts at every possible turn, I normally end every shit test with.. “Let me see your tits” (pulling up her shirt) or Make something to eat I’m starved” or “Where are we food wise?” (ala king of queens) Completely ignoring her words totally. This drives her batty like Bruce wayne !
Great post! You guys are cool..
Domination kids, fuck em like you OWN them!
Fuck that man your girl HAS to know that whatever her mouth can cunt up, you will lay hard pipe whether SHE likes it or not…
Like, you can hate me, call me asshole, bitch, liar, but I’m STILL gonna be choke fuckin you when I get off the john silly girl.
This is how we learn…
On theory I have on why women may be a whole lot cooler with a man having another woman is that historically more women in the household meant the workload could be better shared. Indeed, in the past, the women in many societies were happy to welcome new women to the fold. There was usually a head-wife of some sort who managed the household, including the wives and concubines. That said, I think that for the good of civilization 1 man 1 woman should stay (although in our ever more barbaric society I doubt it’ll stay that way), and I believe that while polygamy isn’t ipso facto a sin by Christian standards, it is still a sin to do so in the US because the law against polygamy does not violate the Bible and Christians are to be subject to the powers insofar as they don’t violate the Bible.
[CH: But in a polygamous system, a wife would also have to share her husband’s resources (time, money, love) with his mistress. So it’s not so clear-cut that such an arrangement is to the benefit of all the women even if the household work is shared (something which sounds plausible but for which there is very little evidence from European antiquity that that actually occurred).]
True, but on your last point, the one in parentheses, multiple concubines were very popular among the Northern Europeans who made a habit of raiding other lands and taking women along with the spoils. Those concubines served a similar role to that of additional wives in ancient Middle Eastern cultures. In a book called Every Day in the Life of the Viking Age, the author, Jacqueline Simpson, wrote “Concubines were customary, but they were always of the lowest social class. A wife could tolerate them because they never endangered her marriage; they went with the mixture of monogamy and polygamy which made up her husband’s character.” The concubines would have been used as any other slaves in Viking society (and that of other Northern Europeans until Northern Europe became Christianized), which means that they would largely be under the power of the wife, who extensively managed the household and much of the agricultural matters while the men were gone for long periods of time. European antiquity is rife with at least concubinage which is nearly the same as polygamy because the result is largely the same: One “main” woman and several lesser women. At any rate, I meant to put these comments on the other post you made this day – my bad man.
The concubines would have been used as any other slaves in Viking society
Yes, that’s the thing: they were not “concubines”, they were thralls who worked and who were also used for sex. That is not at all the same as concubines, who will be given a higher position that a wife would have a lot more trouble with.
Thralls, not slaves, mind. (The word “slave” comes from the Vikings taking so many Slavs as thralls.) They were not bought and sold at slave auctions, they were taken in battle and raids, fair and square. This evolved naturally, because when you had beaten an enemy, what would you do with him? Set him free and he will come after you again. You could kill him. If he didn’t want to be killed you had to bring him back with you, and then of course he’d have to work. This was accepted by all sides, who all did the same thing – the Vikings were just generally better at it, so they were the ones who became known for their raiding skills.
A concubine is simply a woman who lives on a man’s property and has lower status than a wife (and is used for sexual purposes), so a woman can be both a thrall and a concubine.
If I want a woman to help out around the house, I pay her. And then she leaves.
That sounds so dirty. Sexual predator.
How can it be dirty if she’s the cleaning lady?
(good one, Syndi, show ‘em how its done)
Are you a man?
Why? Are you “that way”?
(I can’t play these games anymore. Maya, get off the bench and get in here.)
That carpet needs cleaning.
Yes, you’re lucky to be born in the modern era where such a thing is even possible.
and I believe that while polygamy isn’t ipso facto a sin by Christian standards,
You’re wrong about this. The Catholic Church banned polygamy, and also states that Jesus banned it himself.
Here’s one I had with my ex gf who got in touch a few weeks back by coming to my New Years party. Since then she’s been texting regularly.
I now only respond and don’t initiate and usually it’s along the lines below.
Her: Ping text of photo of a cat: “This meow was meowing at me” (opens me after a week of radio silence from me)
Me: hahaha you smell like pate (neg)
Her: no I smell like chocolate (responding playfully)
Me: I’m craving noodles (ignoring her and reframing)
Me: out and about? (comfort text asking her about her day)
Her; I’m feeling stressed and frustrated, need chocolate. (some outreach for sympathy which I ignore)
Her: sends photo of bikini and some jewelery box (more attention grabbing nonsense)
Her: My first bikini
Me: Model it for me (asshole response ordering her around)
Ends there. 6 messages from her, 3 responses from me.
A lot of text game is really just about pushing it or not giving a shit.
in the original post here the guy seems overly invested.
In my text game which I think it getting decent, I can get girls invested in the chat or coming back for more.
“I now only respond and don’t initiate and usually it’s along the lines below.”
Dude, what are you doing? After all the stuff I wrote about Soft Nexts, you’re still validating her shitty behavior?? I can tell you exactly how this will end but I don’t think you’d listen anymore. You’re txting her because you’re in scarcity and need her attention and she knows it. That’s why she sends a pic of her bikini instead of a pic of her IN her bikini, because that’s the bait to see if you want a pic of her IN it, and you took the bait. You are now chasing her even tho you thought you were being an asshole ordering her around. You’ve now given her “hand”.
It’s sneaky how she turns it around hey? And hard to truly stay radio silent. But now it will take a year to turn it around.
Me: No wait, have your little sister model it. Thanks, I’ll send you a box of chocolates.
But should you text a girl you rape?
RAPE!
Text her a countdown immediately before.
win.
Painful to view, makes utterly more sense now.
Great chat example showing how overdoing and being too much of a bad ass can be quite counterproductive. Indeed, there must be no way back from “let me know how it goes for you.” Girls inundated with messages online are just looking for any reason to filter guys out to make the picking easier for themselves, and this kind of interaction was plenty to cut this guy out.
“I’m a doctor” game. A couple hours rehearsing talking points could lead to a lot of fun. Talk about random hospital shit for a while, it doesn’t even have to be doctoring (doctors don’t generally help nurses), then say “I’m a cardiologist, that’s a heart doctor” or something like that.
http://redditlog.com/snapshots/116845
On the subject of fat shaming–a stellar piece of cultural jamming–a SWPL favorite band’s hit song morphed into a fatty-fug shaming anthem:
Golden nuggets are abundant on this site. Thank your for MANkind.
“Sharing unconditionnal love Alpha game?”
How do you go about superimposing niceness/goodness – not as a means to an end (I am being nice to her because I want to fuck her), but as a true reflection of the good person you are trying to be – on an alpha frame. Sort of like a biker Jesus (“don’t fuck with me but I love all human beings and I wish all the women who didn’t want to fuck me happiness and love with their lover).
Is their such a thing as überAlpha (I am of the impression that only a strong alpha or sigma could pull this off congruently and get some) good person game/ Alpha without the douchebaggery?
It seems like unphased silence is the only option when shit tested or in text game. Or is it the case that the Dalaï Lama attitude just doesn’t get you laid. Then again TV show persona “Patrick Jane” of the mentalist (aloof, independant, never a bad word only ever gently teasing people) comes to mind.
Would really appreciate an answer.
“How do you go about superimposing niceness/goodness – not as a means to an end (I am being nice to her because I want to fuck her), but as a true reflection of the good person you are trying to be – on an alpha frame. Sort of like a biker Jesus (“don’t fuck with me but I love all human beings and I wish all the women who didn’t want to fuck me happiness and love with their lover).”
Forget about niceness. First, you want to be strong (body and mind). Then you want to act for the good of people (gf, friends, etc).
You think being good means being nice. But these are not synonyms. Nice means compromising, arranging, good means an unequivocal behaviour. You think being good is easy? You think telling your friend he is a major beta going nowhere is easy? Or telling your gf that she needs to step up her game and efforts? That’s pretty tough, it takes time and effort. What’s the alternative? You shut up and stay passive, limiting your exposure to bullshit. Much less stressful, but morally that’s not tenable.
As a rule of thumb, you don’t want girls to think you’re “nice”, it’s very bad. Girls will usually be quiet around you and will listen to your advice or ask for your opinion once you get a good grasp of “good game”. It’s not easy but it’s fulfilling.
Cool advice. You are right about pointing my mixing of the two terms (niceness and goodness). Lost in translation I must confess.
Could you elaborate on that being good and alpha part as I tend to merge alphaness with douchebaggery.
Whenever you hear “nice” or “nice guy”, substitute “sucker”. And the rule is, never give a sucker an even break.
The faggot stewardess epidemic is becoming a real problem.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10312446
This is because faggots are like women at their worst, all the time. Take the behavior of a woman in her worst PMS moment, make it permanent, and you have a faggot flight attendant.
lol, is it so hard to understand that this kind of heartiste shit only works when ATTRACTION is already there?
let’s see how would go if you were trying to fuck an uninterested hottie:
you: hey (alpha, no punctuation, lol, only way to get her attention since she won’t ever ever ever ever ever text you since she doesn’t give a shit about you)
her: hi
(best of cases if she responds to you because you have some importance in the common social circle you could share e.g. university / college, otherwise lol)
you are the chaser now, so any bullshit you could do is always framed as you are the chaser. So the shit like: “LOL, WUT MAKES U THINK DATE LOL? BRING DA MOVIES” won’t work
You can say that about anything. “If she is already attracted to you, X doesn’t matter.” “If she isn’t attracted to you, X doesn’t matter either.”
You can say the same for sales and many other things. “If the customer has already decided to buy the car, X doesn’t matter. If he has decided not to buy the car, X doesn’t matter either.”
So it is with many things in life. But the point is that there are many cases on the fence, many cases that can go either way, and those are the ones you affect with the right game.
Unrelated comment:
CH, surprised you haven’t analysed American Beauty (movie). There is a lot in there to talk about…
The Onion makes fun of the Desperate Male of the Month:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/woman-confusingly-tells-area-man-shes-not-interest,34984/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview%3A1%3ADefault
“That’s fair. Let me know how that goes for you.”
All due respect, this line would be awful game. There’s a world of difference between being uncaring/aloof, and basically saying “fuck off.”
I think this one would be much better:
HER: Well I’m not convinced yet. I’d have to confirm you’re safe and normal first…
HIM: I am according to the parole board.
[CH: Agreed. The role reversal technique is meant to be used as a template, not a line by line substitution system.]
Wow, I like this castle … looks a bit scary. What’s going on inside?
Squirting.
what’s squirting?
It’s when the dongle sets fire to the hoohah, and the hoohah tries to put it out.
haha
heh heh
http://thestir.cafemom.com/love_sex/166420/womans_intense_3hour_orgasm_lands
[CH: “reenactment”. boo. T(oo)SFW warning next time.]
It’s Maya’s fault.
ok, i googled it
You’re late. Bring beer or a wet t-shirt or GTFO.
fucking a girl in the ass is not the same as gay male sex. If you look just a little past the bunghole, you’ll notice that the attached body doesn’t resemble a man’s body at all.
What about rimming or getting rimmed?
[CH: not my scene.]
i learn a lot of new words at this blog … why anyone would do that?!
i mean this thing HB mentioned …
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html