The question of whether to call out, or confront, a girl over any behavior of hers that is disrespectful to you is less cut-and-dried than it sounds. For instance, what do you do when you ask a girl out through text and she replies a day later? The he-man, tough guy traditionalists would say you don’t put up with shit from women, you be a man, and that means reprimanding women when they get out of line. Ok, great, but will that get you any closer to getting laid, which, remember, is your primary goal?
(He-men will say to that “Getting laid is less important than sticking up for your principles.” I’d tell them that having principles is fine up until the point those principles become recurring obstacles getting in the way of enjoying a satisfying love life. After which point it’s time to reevaluate your principles so that they’re geared to your personal advantage.)
Back to the scenario of the girl who texts a day late. It just so happens that I put the “calling out” theory to the test about four years ago when I went through a string of dates and flings with about fifteen girls in two months. Three of the girls totally flaked on me: two cancelled a first date at the last minute and one stood me up. A fourth girl took forever to reply to my texts. I was pissed at these flakes and was searching for a fail-safe method to deal with them and bolster my dignity in the process. At that time, I had been hearing a lot from a couple of naturals I knew who claimed that they never hesitated to call girls out on their shitty behavior. They recommended I do the same. Up till then, I was fairly content to just ignore or tease girls when they acted out their female flake algorithm.
To the two girls who cancelled at the last minute, I texted one and left a voicemail with the other expressing my displeasure along the lines of (paraphrasing) “My time is valuable. Last minute blow-offs are not cool.” To the girl who stood me up, I left an angrier text telling her not to make plans if she wasn’t going to see them through. The fourth girl who waited forever to reply to my texts got this in response: “I don’t hang with girls who can’t be bothered to text back in a reasonable time frame.”
The idea here was to rattle the girls with a strong, but non-needy, alpha display that they normally didn’t experience from most men they flaked on. In theory, it sounded plausible. However, in practice it was a total failure. None of the girls ever replied to my stern rebukes.
Conclusion: disciplining prospects = failed game.
Early in the seduction process, before you have cemented the bond with a few nights of fuckfare, stern paternal rebukes, however much delivered from a position of non-neediness, will turn girls off. A girl will never — I mean NEVER — accept that she bears responsiblity for her poor behavior. I don’t care if her fucking life is on the line, she’ll find a way to excuse her actions. Calling an inconsiderate girl out will only add pellets to her hamster’s food dish, and she’ll happily rationalize your scolding so that her decision to flake seems like a good one to her: “Wow, that guy is weird. Good thing we didn’t meet up.”
If you want to blow up any bridges to sex for the thrill of chastising a girl when she’s acting like a bitch, and for helping other guys out who might have to deal with her in the future, I say go for it. I suggest brutally dressing a girl down in front of a group of her friends, or in a public place. “Did your parents raise you to be this way?” is a good line that’ll shut most shrikes up.
But I wouldn’t make a habit of it. The best way to handle misbehaving, flaky girls that most consistently results in furthering positive interactions with the girls (should you choose to further them) is to do the following, in no specific order of effectiveness:
– Ignore
– Tease
– Misdirect
– Demote
Here are some examples of the above methods.
Ignore:
Self-explanatory. A girl texts you a day later, you don’t immediately reply, and you don’t let her know that her tardiness even registered in your consciousness. You act like this is just how girls are, and they deserve no better in return. Proceed as if nothing is wrong.
Tease:
“-10 points for lack of prompt reply. you’re losing me. you got ground to make up.” Also see this post for more examples of teasing a girl to reverse her flaking.
Misdirect:
“What was this about?” Forces girl to explain the context of her reply, which reframes back in your favor. Another good misdirection involves answering as if you were talking to a different girl, which will compel her to figure out what you mean: “Ok, i’ll drop my stuff off at your place later”, to which she will likely ask “what?” and then you reply “my mistake. what’s up?” (credit: Lara).
Demote:
(credit: YaReally) I wouldn’t call her out I’d just act as if I have 10 playboy models on the go and simply reply “sorry too slow lol made other plans. Next time” and then not respond for a few days. That teaches the lesson of “don’t dick around” without coming off insecure and angry.
I can say with a good degree of assurance that calling girls out for crappy behavior is counter-productive in the early stages of a seduction or dating trajectory. It might make you feel better, but it won’t pry open many vaginas. It’s a different story once you’ve been sexing a girl or are in a relationship; at that stage of the fuck cycle, you should establish your dominance when she starts pulling shit on you to test your alpha mettle. Bemused mastery is the alpha attitude women love, and there isn’t much room for indignant anger in that attitude. Especially at the beginning, when neither of you knows each other very well.
If you act like the typical shit that girls pull gets to you, then she’ll think (rightly) that you don’t have much experience with women.
I got rid of my smart phone in October 11. Two weeks ago, I dumped my cell phone entirely. No more texting instantly, just a google voice number tied to email.
Something I did, though, that really upped my text game when I had a phone, was turn off notifications for texts and emails from my social address.
I had to actually remind myself to check the inboxes once or twice a day. Fantastic response to the delays.
When pressed as to why I didnt respond faster, I told the truth: I prefer phone calls, but I only answer those when I’m alone. Emails and texts get read twice daily, at 8am and 4pm.
Downside: missing out on booty texts. Upside: booty texts return to booty *calls* again.
Lesson: be the one not responding fast cuts the chaff of low interest and high maintenance dames.
I read your comment before reading H’s post.
How do you do that?
I use IFTTT.com, point all my favorite blogs RSS feeds there, and it sends me a Google Talk chat when something new posts. If I’m at my desk or sitting in an airport on my iPad, I see it instantly.
I generally just read the RSS fed data — on Heartiste’s site, he submits the full article to the RSS feed, so I get his text plains, without any sidebar or header or what-not. Faster to read, then click through to post a comment.
Nothing magical. I prefer IFTTT.com over an RSS reader.
You’ve obviously read and implemented aspects from 4HWW.
I did too but allowed my discipline to lapse. Emails/texts are really major time killers.
I actually haven’t read 4HWW, I just made a decision two years ago to stop wasting time with people who I wasn’t getting some reward out of.
The difference is that I realized I was really inefficient at 80% of the tasks I was doing. So I cut out close to 70% of my non-travel expenses and used the savings to hire a full time assistant. $25k a year is a lot for people, but if you earn a basic 6 figures, you have to find a way to afford it. It’ll take your 50 hours a week of work and chores and cut it down to 20 hours, leaving you with 30 more hours to do what you do best and most efficiently — making you more money.
The 40 hour work week + 10 hours of chores is terrible financially. We easily waste 75% of that time doing monotonous tasks that we can delegate to someone simpler of mind who can focus on doing them well. When you can focus all your energies on efficient things, profit follows quickly.
If a girl flakes out on you, then during another day tries to hit you up like nothing happened, isn’t it good to call her out on it and tell her your time is valuable? I did this to one girl who flaked like 3 times (1 was a bad flake while the other 2 were anticipated so I didn’t give a fuck) and all of a sudden she was texting me more, sent me her address immediately, and apologizing profusely multiple times. I’ll wait a week and report to see if it actaully works in meeting up with her. You can’t let her get away with this shit.
She flaked on you 3 times and you’re still talking to her? Pretty clear who’s running this show.
you didn’t even read heartsie’s post, did you.
if you directly tell a girl you haven’t been banging not to waste your time because your time is valuable, what she hears is butthurtness. instant dlv.
your mindset towards the girl should be ‘i’m gonna go out and have fun, you’re invited to come along. if you flake, it’s your loss, not mine.’
what you actually do/say to her should only hint at this mindset. don’t actually say those words.
her apologies and excuses don’t mean dick.
these are good, and very solid.
The difference between the “stern rebukes” that didn’t work, and the things you have suggested is:
“stern”
The stern stuff will only work once she is invested and is in the habit of desiring your approval (and is better suited to more significant offenses). The suggestions you made are still rebukes, they are just more light hearted and hamster-friendly.
This is true. The stern, paternal dressing-down only works with a girl who is already strongly attracted/attached to you. Otherwise you risk sounding overly serious and butt-hurt, which is the mark of a frustrated beta. Who cares? She’s just a girl, there are millions of them out there. Plus, you have to bring some carefree fun into her life before she feels the loss when you take it away. Give that bitch some fun, bitches love fun.
I’d suggest being coy when she does respond, saying something like “Oops! Missed me, I’m already booked for the week” and then not replying for at least a week. Make her wonder what else you’ve got going on. Or just play her game; set up a date, and if she does show up text her back from somewhere else like, “Just ran into an old college friend and she kidnapped me and dragged me to another bar. I swear I had no choice. Another time?” Operate from the frame that you’ve got so many girls in rotation, it’s no loss if she flakes. Even if it isn’t true, just the hint of it will get the hamster wheel spinning.
This is a good comment. We just want it to be light and fun in the beginning.
I’m finding it harder to add reps to my pull-ups than weight to my squats.
Regarding this, try adding BCAA’s during your workout. Pretty cheap at bodybuiding.com.
Weighted pull-ups if you can pull 8-10+ easily at bodyweight.
QFT^
I’ve always been a hard-gainer, but since I added BCAAs and sufficient muscle-building protein, I’ve broken through a weight plateau and gained pounds of muscle.
If the games become more trouble than they’re worth move on to a different girl. Nothing lost by cutting the cord on a chick you don’t feel is worth the effort to game.
There are no shortage of attractive women. You are the selector, if she comes up short or flakes move on to another chick.
There is not enough time to game every game playing woman in your contact list.
I can tell you this has saved me plenty a headache that my buddies have unfortunately blundered into due to sharing this same philosophy.
“No woman left ungamed”
“Ergo, is the mass immigration advocated by white elites a “let’s you and him fight” strategy that effectively boosts elite sexual access?”
Sure. Divide and rule. Plus, as GBFM points out, inflation erodes a society’s morals (there’s a fine essay on this at: http://mises.org/journals/rae/pdf/rae7_1_1.pdf). So now you have an ever more poor and debt-ridden working-class and former middle-class set of women who’ve been schooled from a young age in things like no-standards screwing, BDSM, and ultimately suicidal mating strategies like the alpha male prisoner’s dilemma (i.e. they all chase the scarce alphas and they all end up worse off than if they’d all settled for the more plentiful betas).
Betas are ever more shut out of the sexual market, their wages eroded at all skill levels by elites flooding the labor market, then taxed to prop up the same people used for that flooding. (That’s one of the first items in the elite playbook: make ‘em pay for their own screwing.) It’s a sexual paradise for elites that likely hasn’t been equaled since the declining days of Rome, if ever.
Ego is a seductive man’s worst enemy. That’s why it’s called game. Learn. Adapt. Sex.
Punishing a girl you’ve haven’t had sex with is:
(1) taking girls too seriously, and
(2) impossible
Taking girls too seriously shows inexperience. Inexperience is unattractive.
Just treat flaking as if you were gently herding a bunch of cute, fluffy kittens. Some will get away, some won’t, but all are interchangeable.
Demote is probably the best way to go IMO.
Whenever I have a doubt, I ask myself “What would a guy with 10 hotties in his harem” do?
That usually leads to the correct thing to do and minimizes needy behavior.
So related question to the topic at hand … if her tardiness responding to a text is flakiness and misbehavior, what is the correct corresponding alpha etiquette?
I personally usually feel very beta if I respond too quickly to a text, and the more banal her text, the more beta is me for responding quickly.
Sometimes you have rapid fire text conversation complete with teasing and fun, that’s different. But what about run of the mill texts?
@ Heartiste tweet: “Ergo, is the mass immigration advocated by white elites a “let’s you and him fight” strategy that effectively boosts elite sexual access?”
There was a question raised at OneSTDV a few days ago — cui buono, who profits, from engineering immigration-driven social changes. My answer was, Nobody. When you burn your own ship to spite the steerage crowd, the best you’ll get is a life-raft.
White elites are no different than you or I. When they take a drive out like Kerouac, they want to be served by pretty girls as part of the local folklore. Or at the six-star hotel. What was that hideous horror sent to give Strauss-Kahn a blow job in that NYC hotel room? They don’t make working girls like they used to.
A blogger, I forget who, write about how he spent some time in India. The people, he wrote, were wonderful and friendly. But in all the tome he was there, he did not see any — not one — girl he’d even consider banging. This Is the most depressing thing ever written.
The white elites better recallibrate. The world they’re destroying is their own.
“The world is full of double beds
and most delightful maidenheads.”
– Hillary Belloc
What a wonderful thing England was a century ago.
If the implications are true, its doubtful any elites would waste their time perusing a game blog.
Vicarious posturing is rampant on anonymous forums I’d process the postings of the numerous “elites” frequenting this blog with a large amount of skepticism.
The people who benefit are White women (true story, my local German butcher, the tattooed White 20-something clerks were all raving about “the Help”) because it provides both “uplifiting” moral status enhancers, and an occupation (teacher, social worker, etc.)
Also White elites who in “knowledge’ based (i.e. politics, media, etc) professions don’t do much other than status-climb. Demonstrating a higher class (“I don’t need to worry about immigrants”) is always a plus for that group. Achievement oriented people (“Scoreboard baby”) have different metrics: more money, more dominant companies, more outrageous toys, but the arc is from objective dominance to social one upmanship (think Bill Gates in 1988 vs. today).
This is a short-term benefit, for long term harm, but that’s common among societies. A Tragedy of the Commons for sure. This is why Elites and White women are so pro-diversity/immigration, it is a class thing. While guys, particularly White guys, really don’t like it or give a damn, because they rise mostly (outside the media/infotainment/politics areas) through achievement: money, accomplishment, etc. which depends more on a mono-ethnic group.
Excellent post! So many people forget that being a player is not the same as being a f***ing movie star who deals with people the way they deserve and is always respected. A player’s job, in reality, is doing what has the largest chance of success (penetrating her wet hole(s)) and the least negative consequences to his emotional stability. Nothing else.
Question – a girl I am gaming (kissed only) sent me an bbm message asking me if I am on holidays again. I did not respond and now she deletes me from her contact list, I will add I did notice alot of status updates about trust etc.
I was going to scold but this post tells me to do otherwise.
“Ok, great, but will that get you any closer to getting laid, which, remember, is your primary goal?”
This is already a losing mindset.
I agree with all of the techniques listed here, but why not take a healthy mindset and allow these methods flow effortlessly and naturally?
If you strive to be carefree, purpose-driven and ultimately satisfied with yourself, you’ll likely live a life in which a last-minute flake is a relief, or where you actually don’t have time to answer petty messages. Do you think celebrities and athletes are sitting around thinking of techniques to deal with flakes? No, because they’re living a life of enjoyment already, without seeking solely to “get laid.”
“Conclusion: disciplining prospects = failed game.”
The methods of calling out listed were more focused on your personal hurt/disappointment than her crappy behavior. The demote method by YaReally is a more constructive way of calling out behavior: throwing the behaviour back in their face without showing personal anger, as if he forgot the plans were made until she texted the cancellation.
Then again, that’s just the way of a natural, purpose-driven man.
Dealing with flakes is a lose-lose proposition. Flakes simply just aren’t worth the games.
Would she flake on Brad Pitt – nope. And therein lies the problem: Different degrees of respect. If she snaps to attention based purely on social status – lose. If she doesn’t crave you enough to care – lose. Wanting you around just to play games with: Double lose. Does anybody think Pitt “won” by “winning” his wife? Really? He still looks pussy whipped, and even plastic surgery can’t hide that.
Dump the bitch and get another. Wasting the efforts, blood and treasure of True Game on some flighty skank with a 56 IQ just because she has great tits is one of the stupidest things a real Man can do.
What, no politics? I don’t believe it…what is this, an advice column? I thought this was a political blog.
“Ergo, is the mass immigration advocated by white elites a “let’s you and him fight” strategy that effectively boosts elite sexual access”
That’s part of it, but the main reason is that racial minorities are generally less intelligent and easier to control than the white middle-class.
As to the topic:
Girls interpret chastisement as an emotional reaction. They think you’re angry at them. And as we know, emotionally reacting to a girl lowers your value.
Sometimes calling out bad behavior isn’t calling out, its educating another person on how you wish to be treated in the future. Or its a miscommunication to clarify.
“Ok, great, but will that get you any closer to getting laid, which, remember, is your primary goal?”
Obviously sexual access is the primary goal, that’s why we need to take their vote away and put them in their place (in other words don’t play by their rules but instead take them by force – like our ancestors). I know it’ll probably never happen, and that the West is probably WAY past the point of no return – but I just like to keep reminding the Internetz of this option.
Demote has always worked for me. If she flakes and texts “Sorry I can’t make it.” I just text back “That’s cool. Give me a shout sometime if you want to have some fun.” I leave it at that and never look back, because – as Heartiste and Roosh and many others have always proscribed – I’ve already had a plan B in pocket all along.
Early in my life I used to get pissed, but then realized that you don’t get angry at a bird for flying, a fish for swimming, or a girl for flaking. It’s what they do.
Just be ready to implement plan B and say “Next”!