*Update below*
I couldn’t help overhearing every snippet of their conversation as the night wore on.
Him: I’m gonna have a glass of wine.
Her: No, you aren’t. You’ve had enough.
Him: *heavy sigh* *chin into chest*
***
Him: Can you look up the weather for tomorrow?
Her: No, I’m doing something right now, can’t you see?
***
Him: We’re going to Thailand next month.
Her: No, *I’m* going to Thailand. He’s just meeting me there later.
***
Him: I’ve gotta check the travel itinerary.
Her: In a minute. Just relax, I’ll get to it.
***
Disgusted, I turned to my companion.
“How long have they been together?”
“Five years!”
Five years of putting up with that impudence from a woman. I’d sooner join a monastery.
The dude in question was an average looking guy with a decent personality. Just an everyday normal beta male absorbing body blows of insolence from his girlfriend in a public setting, his hound dog face betraying a weary resignation.
Question directed to the studio audience. What particular fact which I left out of this post explains why this relationship has lasted five years?
Hint: A hot chick would quickly dump a beta of that magnitude.
UPDATE
Frank Xavier was the first commenter to get the right answer:
She’s put on lots of weight since they started going out.
She wasn’t exactly svelte when he met her, but she blimped out as the relationship progressed. The residual attraction he used to feel for her has created inertia, keeping him glued in place. He is a beta filled with the fear of the unknown, so it is difficult for him to leave relationships. But what about her? Most women would either cheat on or dump a sniveling lackey in short order… unless the woman was fat.
Fat women subconsciously know — though they will never admit it — that they have fewer options in the dating market than they would have if they were thin. She hates having to boss him around, and harbors contempt for him, but she knows she will be single a long time if she were to leave him. The sexual market is merciless in its judgment.
Result: He puts up with her fatness, and she puts up with his betaness.
If options = instability, then lack of options = stability.
And you’d be surprised just how many relationships, marriages included, fall into this soul-sucking pattern. When you see an ugly couple together, physically and/or psychologically ugly, don’t try to soften the revulsion you feel by chanting to yourself that they’re happy. They’re not. They’ve just given up, and in their surrender there is a numbing relief that accompanies the resignation.
Comfortably numb, is how I’d describe the typical beta male/unattractive female relationship.
Those commenters who said that some women like weak betas they can dominate are wrong. You can see it in the faces of both man and woman when the dominance/submission polarity is reversed: he will look beaten down, like a tired old hound dog, and she will look tense and irritable, like a woman cursed with perpetual PMS.
What women like and what women settle for are rarely, for the majority of women, the same thing. Women don’t want to be the dominant ones in relationships, but against their deepest desires they will assume the role if the man refuses to step up. As commenter Rollo wrote:
In any relationship, by order of degrees, there will always be a dominant and a submissive partner. For what ever reason (probably a belief in egalitarian gender equality) he chose the submissive partner role and abdicated to the authority of a dominant partner who didn’t have his best interests as her concern. She grows to resent him and now his life is over.
If you find yourself in a slave-like state, more likely than not a woman’s realized you’ve failed a great many of her past shit tests and will be reluctant to give up any semblance of power she thinks she has at this point. When a woman comes to recognize that her BF/husband can’t or wont provide her with the security she needs for herself and her children she will assume the role of the primary herself. Power abhors a vacuum and she will readily step into the role of the traditional security provider if a man is unwilling or incapable of doing so.
Confirmation of Rollo’s analysis is that the guy in question is a flaming left winger. He probably is knee-deep in the mental sludge of gender equalism.
Commenters who thought they might be married made good guesses. Many otherwise strong and proud men are reduced to groveling errand boys by the omnipresent threat of divorce theft.
Many commenters seemed to think the answer lay in the couple’s ethnicity or religion. I’m not sure why that would make a difference when we are examining fundamental and universal principles of sex relations, but since it titillates so many of you I’ll reveal that it was gentile-jewish couple. Which was which I’ll leave to you to figure out.
UPDATE 2
Some readers want to know how to respond to an insolent girlfriend dominating you in a public setting. The answer is… wait for it…
amused mastery!
For instance:
You: I’m gonna have a glass of wine.
Her: No, you aren’t. You’ve had enough.
You: [hold the glass with pinky out and drink it slowly in front of her. make slurping noises while doing this] Aaaaaahhhh!
That’s how you handle that. Don’t get angry or spiteful or nasty. That will backfire on you when there are people around. Plus, when a girlfriend has been dominating you for years, it’s going to take a lot more careful strategic thinking to break her in. You don’t tame a wild horse by yelling at it after it’s thrown you off, and the same goes for taming women.
Fst
And shez ugly
Interesting analysis. Just our of curiosity, were these two mutual friends of your companion? Also, how old were they? If it’s not too much to ask, can you please clarify how physically repulsive this actual woman was?
You’re a brilliant writer Roissy, I’d love to have you come on our show sometime…
She’s older than he is so her beauty is fading.
She’s older than he is and likely her beauty and options are fading.
My answer the dudes rich or at least two points higher than her on the looks scale than she is. I’d like to throw out one last reason for her dealing with such a wuss-bag is that he has have status or fame.
Good question. My guesses would be:
1. She makes more money than him
2. She’s taller
3. He makes more money, but they have kids and he’s afraid of a divorce (which can bankrupt him).
4. She dominates him bkz she has dirt on him?
Ok. I am jesting now.
She’s put on lots of weight since they started going out.
“I love these people that say Obama made a bold move. “Hey boss, we found bin Laden.” What’s he gonna do, tell them not to bother? ”
Bush disbanded the Bin Laden unit in 2006. Obama started it back up. And he was mocked by McCain during the election for this position. And torture had nothing to do with finding him. Any other talking points you’d like me to address?
And they got married.
He’s rich, she’s older and/or fatter. Maybe some disfigurement, like a withered limb
@ Dr. Grzlickson
This is hardly the place to discuss a Twitter post, blast Roissy on Twitter if you really care.
Whipped by Steve Goodie
“You’re more woman than I deserve
I’m so grateful that you came along
Cause now I live to serve
Since you taught me that I’m always wrong
I love everything you do
Love the moustache that you grew
My genitalia belong to you
See them roasting on the barbecue”
Fattie.
“Dr. Grzlickson
“I love these people that say Obama made a bold move. “Hey boss, we found bin Laden.” What’s he gonna do, tell them not to bother? ”
Bush disbanded the Bin Laden unit in 2006. Obama started it back up. And he was mocked by McCain during the election for this position. And torture had nothing to do with finding him. Any other talking points you’d like me to address?”
well no one fuckin asked so no i don’t think so.
She fat. she sounds blubbery, and using all her willpower to believe she still isnt.
that was my guess withOUT a hint, stop making it so easy.
She’s asian.
At a wedding of a white beta to an asian female, I walked to the back of the venue and saw him helping her put on her shoes under the wedding gown.
Another time, I was at Whole Foods and saw this 40 something white guy with his petite asian wife and 2 mixed kids. The kids, the wife, and the Wife’s Mother were all happily talking in a foreign language while the husband was pushing the grocery cart. Then the eldest male child threw a shoe and the husband tried to yell at his child, but the wife got mad at the husband for yelling at her son.
obviously shes fat. and american.
She’s fat.
She’s a fatty fat.
she’s ugly or he’s rich
I am inclined to vote fatty.
She’s either
a) fat
b) old
c) ugly
or more likely d) all of the above
Another thing, why doesn’t he have his own iPhone? Why is he having to ask other people to do stuff for him? I would get annoyed if my other half kept asking me silly questions that they could answer themselves.
The weather question bothers me. Dude…extrapolate…what was it like today?
She hit the wall. Hard.
She’s a 5 or lower.
That “hint” was hardly needed. Or shouldn’t be.
They got a kid.
I was going to wonder aloud if she wouldn’t have to be super hot for him to stick with her, but somebody else had a better idea. She’s asian. I guess some people find that attractive. And she sticks with him cause he’s white, and she can boss him around.
poor bastard. The wine counter acts the effects of fatassphyxia
Doubt she’s Asian…if she was, then I doubt she’d have stayed with a man for five years as a girlfriend. They want to get married, far quicker than Western men feel comfortable with. I doubt she’s Thai, either, because otherwise how’d she get a green card without being married? For bored link clickers, read here about a Chinese dude getting dumped for an apparently inscrutable reason.
Oh, and stay on topic, people. Keep twitter on twitter. I swear, it’s times like these that I love the Great Firewall for blocking it.
He’s a masochist.
Her market value was low or has lowered to the point that she is settling for Betas, she sounds like a girl that would have fun with Alphas during her prime years then settle down to be a soccer mom. She probably will resent him throughout marriage, cheat on him and then when the kids are 10 ish play her divorce card.
It is funny to mention slapping a girl to Betas, they look at you as if I’m a psychopath.
Jew/Orthodox Jew. My observation is generally Jewish men are very much henpecked and the women seem to prefer it that way….. for a relationship.
The two most probable choices, though it’s hard to given how pathetic most American men are.
1. They have a kid, and thus he doesn’t want to risk never seeing his child again. (STRONG justification, though he should cheat on her mercilessly.)
2. He’s a typical American male. We are not our grandfathers, that’s for god damned sure.
Option 2 seems the most probable, based on the dialog. She is not outright berating him, but is being a passive-aggressive cunt. Only a man who has no spirit would stand for such insolence. If he had a sack, he’d have at least snipped back at her.
Some have mentioned that she makes more money than he, but in my experience, men won’t stick around with a nagging cunt for money. A woman will take a lot of abuse to be with a rich man. Men are much less willing to make that trade. (Although we do work stressful jobs, and eat a lot of shit for money in the work place. Thus, it’s an interesting disconnect. We will kiss ass at a job for money, but not kiss ass in a relationship.)
She’s clearly sexually frustrated.
We need to find someway to make money off our fat, entitled, ugly women. Or maybe we can just bury them all at sea, like we did with Osama. That would be great.
They’re married. She’s fat. She’s divorcing him.
Andrew S,
“Or maybe we can just bury them all at sea, like we did with Osama.”
We’ve had enough Tsunamis for one year.
Despite the fact that she’s fat and beyond her prime, she has bought in to all the propaganda telling her that she deserves an Alpha, and she thus hates herself for “settling” and hates the Beta on whom she settled.
She’s Asian, which I guessed from reading your post about herbs just a bit before. Alternatively, she’s a cougar or single mom.
In her defense, beta behavior puts women in a bad mood.
she’s a fugly/fat/old and he’s rich
She has a boyfriend on the side.
They’re both old.
Who cares. Those years are way behind me…
They’re Hebes.
Poor betas. Nobody deserves to be treated with such contempt, especially when they comply with what the feminist/mangina/media overlords tell them. I recognize why women biologically despise betas but I can’t help but feel bad. This is one lost generation of men. Were it not for this blog I’d be in his place too. Anybody who makes a mockery of this betas situation should try to imagine what position they’d be in were it not for Roissy. Nevertheless I enjoy blog entries like this (and the comments they generate) for their educational value. We need to be reminded (as if there was any doubt) the misery of beta males.
NYC
Not a bad guess. But the man doesn’t have to be Jewish. The female being a JAP and the man being too young to know better is enough to cause this dynamic. She could be older than him too.
She’s an old, fat, man-faced hooker. She’s not 1st or 2nd generation Asian though, too dominant.
Absolutely pathetic–the “man,” that is.
Perhaps if he hadn’t been gelded in his younger years he would have addressed the bitch’s first outburst with this pithy retort: “Fuck you, ho. You can suck my dick.”
Bonus points if he had unzipped his fly.
Seriously, that disrespect from a “girl”friend has GOT to be shot down the first time it happens.
The tragedy is, his woman probably WANTED him to man up and put her in her place 5 years ago when she took her first jab at him.
She has to be fat. If she isn’t fat, then she is average and he is rich.
It’s easy to be harsh on the guy. I notice people have refrained from being so.
Fact is, a man can be whipped. Nowadays I turn the tables and whip the girl. Cock-whipping a girl and turning her into a slave is the way to go, and can be healthy and sustainable and enjoyable. It’s a similar process to pussy whipping a guy – you have to lead the partner to losing all will. The difference is that the girl will volunteer her will and sleep better for no longer holding it.
A BPD woman will whip a man, in the end. There is no winning that contest. I don’t care if you are King of Krypton. The only way out of that hell is to escape – and even that won’t end the complications.
Being whipped is more than a matter of spirit – it’s situational. The defense against it is non-monogamy, and safe income that is beyond the reach of the girl. But most men aren’t in a mental space to even want non-monogamy, let alone handle it, let alone bring such a situation about in their lives. And once sucked in to whipped whirlpool, dating around gets further out of reach.
Remember at the beginning of “The Hangover,” when dentist Stu is being emasculated 9 ways to Sunday by his cunt wife?
(Phil pulls up outside and yells “Paging Dr. Faggot!”)
That reminded me of this bitch.
Quick story about that movie. Last summer, I was having drinks with a few SWPL acquaintances at a rooftop bar in DC.
The topic of movies came up. I turned to the girl sitting next to me (a 5 with way too much junk in the trunk). I’m not at all attracted to her, but just to make polite conversation, I casually asked her if she had seen “The Hangover,” a movie numerous girls I know loved.
“No,” she said, “it’s misogynist.”
I replied, “Oh, who told you that, Rachel Maddow?”
She said “There are no positive portrayals of women.”
What a howler. I didn’t want to make a scene, but I felt like escalating by asking her how many TV commercials feature positive portrayals of men….but whatever.
She’s a law student. Of course.
For those of you with strong stomachs, check out this cunt’s take of “The Hangover” at Jizzabel.
http://jezebel.com/#!5280141/the-hangover-funny-racist-sexist
The tragedy is, his woman probably WANTED him to man up and put her in her place 5 years ago when she took her first jab at him.
Some women are near impossible to tame, and will fight fight fight fight and never give up. They don’t want to be happy. They will cause trouble because without drama they feel they are dead. Some women no technique can tame. Born to be shrew. Deep down inside these women are broken and can never be fixed.
She is 37.
It’s best if the man’s drama thresh-hold is higher than the womans. If this is not the case, he’ll get whipped.
She cheats– plus she’s ugly, she’s fat, or he’s rich. She does cheat, regardless.
The number of women, with great objective lives, that cheat with me alone (not physically ideal by any means), is enough for me to never put up with anything close to this story again.
I did for decades though. Fatherless upbringing = disastrous twenties.
I’m guessing she’s a soulless ginger.
She is asian.
http://jezebel.com/#!5280141/the-hangover-funny-racist-sexist
Look at what this insufferable Jizzebel shrew thinks of Stu’s bitch wife in “The Hangover.”
“Problematic.”
Don’t you love that femi-marxist-SWPL-speak word “problematic”?
“Ooohh…that movie [The Hangover] was mostly funny but the sexist and racist lines were ‘problematic.’”
she is a typical woman, with an average man
She is his first long term pussy. He was maybe 19 20 when they met and he does not have eyes for other pussy because he is a nice guy. (no sense of game at all) She was average when they met and has slowly degraded over time and is now bigger than he is.
Such a sad case and could have been me. Diagnosis: she is Asian, fat (but used to be skinny) and is hitting the wall in her mid 30s.
A brief history to support my case — I was hopelessly beta in my formative years. Thought lending my ear and being a sensitive soul would lead me to wuv, twue wuv. Met a cute, sexy, but rude Asian babe in college. I quickly put her on the pedestal and got nowhere fast. Ended up being a hapless orbiter for years, supporting her through a stream of bad boys. As she started putting on weight to deal with the psychological damage wreaked by the consistent dumping, the alphas showed up less frequently. My chance was finally coming! But no. Her hamster never figured out why they weren’t comng around anymore and the bitch remained — just fatter and older now. She took up travel as a hobby, with ascerbic ball cutting thrown in for good measure. And it’s been all downhill from there.
Fortunately for me, I finally grew a pair and found better women. But if I hadn’t, I would have been the subject of this post. She would have eventually rationalized away her girth and latched onto her last orbitter. Standard operating procedure would have been to pursue her travel hobby (“I’m going to Thailand, he’s meeting me there.”), follow her frame, and watch my life drain away. I would have stuck around because finally, I got the girl on the pedestal! Other men would look away in nervous disgust. I would have been the sad sack, whipped, pathetic beta herein.
But fortune smiles on the brave. I escaped the cycle by getting a bit of courage, banging youngerhottertighter, and leaving her to get fatter and more bitter on her own terms. It doesn’t take much, but the escape from this trap exists. Unless he married her, there is still time to learn.
hmmm…they are engaged, ‘the rock’ is already on her finger, they are getting married. she’s smarter than him, but not hot?
AUGHHHHH nightmare.
She’s ugly.
He’s legally blind.
She’s an Asian Amy Chua type bitch and he’s the nebbish Jew husband who is just happy not to be married to a whiny jew wife that reminds him of his mother.
Not enough Selenium?
It reads like diary of an American Shrew.
The dude is not even beta, hes borderline omega.
She has a kid, but I don’t think it’s his and his whipped over her because it was his first serious relationship
She earns the income, he’s a stay-at-home dad.
Maybe she’s a doctor? A lawyer?
“Some women are near impossible to tame, and will fight fight fight fight and never give up. They don’t want to be happy. They will cause trouble because without drama they feel they are dead. Some women no technique can tame. Born to be shrew. Deep down inside these women are broken and can never be fixed.”
Female drama is just another shit test- and like all shit tests it’s designed to see if you’re of the master morality or the slave morality.
The Master laughs at shit tests and drama. They’re nothing to him. He is the center of his own universe; his wants, desires, and goals are primary. As such the drama is irrelevant to him- no woman can possibily be as important to him as his own needs. All the tears, crying, yelling, and screaming are just tests to see if he the monad; the lone unit made in the image of creator with a will and ego that is fitting of this birthright.
The Slave is nothing. He has no ego, no will, and no strength- he lives though others, and in this case her. He bends to her whims and becomes the empty remnants of the man he could have been. When you look at the slaves this is why you see the dead eyes, the poor body language, the disheveled sloppy appearence; the outer state is the manifestation of the inner decay.
A picture is worth a thousand words:
Master:
http://img64.imageshack.us/i/mastermorality.jpg/
Slave:
http://img541.imageshack.us/i/slavemorality.jpg/
NYC Bachelor – Point taken, but the reference to alcohol suggests they’re not Jewish. Jews don’t drink much.
FWIW, in my college days, Jewish girls were lotsa fun and put out pretty generously, actually. If you were a Gentile. A Jewish frat brother of mine couldn’t get a Jewess to bed to save his life.
Answer: He’s got money, and she’s hot enough that if she gives him a soupcon of sex every now and then he’s sated.
She has a kid from a previous relationship. An ugly girl wouldn’t spit that kind of venom at an average looking beta.
Maybe he cheats on her to stay happy.
She’s a diehard FEMINIST
The best thing a man can do for his relationship is never get married.
with no fault divorce, child support, vaginamony, a society dripping with misandry, and a bad economy the ONLY two cards men have left to play are game, and the threat that they can leave at the drop of a hat.
I realize this isn’t exactly on topic, but I figure answers are more likely since this is a new post:
How does one play the charmer AND Mr. Emotionally Distant/Laconic? The two seem mutually exclusive.
Have all you people learned nothing from reading Roissy these many months? They’re married. Average, decent guys don’t stay with harpies for five years unless divorce-rape is threatened. If she was ugly, as many have suggested, it’s even less likely they’d be together. Roissy, you need to find a new crop of disciples. Or at least don’t invite them if you’re going on Who Wants to be a Millionaire.
My solution to avoid whippage is extreme and rapid escalation with no fear of brinksmanship. I’m fast to kick a girl out for the night, and if the response isn’t contrition then it’s the next step of not seeing her. I use a short temper to brook no dissent, and I’m not afraid of using a loud voice in public, or otherwise publicly embarrassing the girl. Contrast to that is an even cheerful background temperament, and another contrast is spikes of lusty intense physical passion. So I try to keep her always engaged and not in need of drama, and when there is drama, I make it drama on my term, and will escalate past her drama times 2.
Some men prefer to even tempered. I choose to dangerous.
This reads like outtakes from “Blue Valentine”.
The one fact that could be left out is that she is a single mom whom this guy hooked up with 5 years ago with a view to “Saving” her.
this guy has become a de facto “father figure” to the woman’s kids and feels a white-knight sense of obligation to her and so despite feeling beaten down is motivated out of a sense of duty and guilt to her child.
She resents him for that and constantly rides him as outlined above.
My guess…
Princeps
The answer is simple. Don’t believe everything you read.
Find your own style.
That, and, alternation.
The laconic emotional distance should grow from inside you as a result of not being blown about on the winds of other peoples expectations. While other people are trying to dominate you or play little mind games or win subtle games of who is the hottie with the power in the relationship, you act like an old dog – not a puppie dog. You don’t play fetch anymore. You answer 20% of questions asked of you. You no longer feel beholden to fulfill social expectations. You’re not invested in keeping people from being pissed off or satisfied with your level of service.
It’s from that core of immoveability that you let your don’t give a fuck passion come out. You can scream for the neighbors to hear, because you don’t give a fuck. You aren’t embarrassed to be passionate.
If she were a single mom it would be kinda hard to make a trip to Thailand. Unless she’s THAT old. My guess: She’s hit the wall (6 yrs his senior?), he has money. One or both.
Roissy,
I have the answer. Tonight I went for my evening walk as I do every day, and at one point a couple walked ahead of me, and as I surveyed their attire, their gait, their overall demeanor, my herb detector started going off. Her: mid-thirties, about a 5, walking like she was carrying a load. Him: mid-thirties, khaki pants and also walking like he had one turtling. I had an epiphany: this is how couples stay together: each becomes a co-conspirator to their load-carrying shame. Might I suggest a maxim?
Couples that carry loads together, stay together.
One interesting phenomenon I have seen is women who ARE low value themselves mistreating men they veiw as low value, just for being with herself.
Its like the Chapelle Show skit of of the blind black KKK member, who found out he was black and divorced his wife for being a “nigger lover”.
Fat ugly old bitch with two kids sees ANY man who would have her as low value, and as such is NON capable of feeling any form of attraction or respect for any man who would have her in a relationship.
Fat ugly old bitch with two kids sees ANY man who would have her as low value, and as such is NON capable of feeling any form of attraction or respect for any man who would have her in a relationship.
He he – you’ve hit on something. Treat em mean to keep em keen.
It’s always important to treat your girl like shit.
Any girl I’m serious about, sooner or later I’m going to piss on her.
It’s just disrespectful to not disrespect your woman.
Because as you say, if you don’t, she’ll think you’re not man enough.
He’s afraid she’ll divorce him b4 he saves up enough money for sex reassignment surgery…
asian
They guy probably let her get away with her shitty attitude from the beginning, probably thinks of himself as a “nice guy” and wonders why she treats him with so much disrespect.
she is banging Roissy on the side and this dude is the provider(beta)male…
how fat was she?
She’s a lawyer?
I’m guessing she’s Asian, professional (tax lawyer?) but not particularly well off, OK-looking but no hottie, and in her mid-30s.
He’s rich but was a virgin or near-virgin when she got her hooks into him.
What to do with a girl who canceled a date on the same morning? She texted that she has to look after her brother’s kid and didn’t seem to be apologetic about it. I was thinking about radio silence for a few days up to a week and then initiating one more time, unless she contacts first.
He’s Justin Beiber.
Probably he does not notice the woman attitude.
So he must be married, or convinced he could not have anything better.
Your duty, direct him to your site.
Sounds like the accumulation of years of accepting shit tests.. I bet she went from pokes to shoves because he let it happen.. so our boy Herb here says enough, what’s the right response? I don’t think any verbal response is sufficient — pack your shit, walk away; if she comes back everything is on your terms.
Her name is Kate. His name is William. They just got married.
simple… they’re married
I’ve met PLENTY of couples like that. Sometimes the girl’s fat or older, but in most cases she’s quite, if not very, attractive. It’s one of the reasons I don’t swallow whole everything I read in blogs like this regarding the alpha/beta and hot chick/fat or older chick dynamics. I’ve met more than enough happy couples consisting of an attractive girl and a beta male who met through social circle, in which the girl holds most of the power. In fact it describes most of the under-30 couples I’ve met. Maybe every single one of these girls is cheating on the side with a mysterious alpha male character, but I doubt it.
The girls are usually intelligent girls who don’t go out to clubs etc. very often, so my guess is that they’d rather just settle down with a nice guy who they can control instead of bothering with all the bullshit of the dating scene. It’s not the sort of relationship I’d want to be in, but for most betas it’s everything they want – sex and a relationship with a girl who’s attractive and who makes all the decisions for him so he doesn’t have to exert himself and stress out too much. For both parties, it’s an easy life compared to their single friends who’re dressing up and going out and spending money every weekend in the hope of pulling, only to come home empty-handed or with low-quality jerks/bitches. And possibly the girl doesn’t have a massive raging sex drive, so she’s happy with sex with her beta boyfriend rather than going out to fuck as many alphas as possible. Not all girls are the same, despite what all the PUA literature says.
TL;DR: both are quite happy in their situation, and either don’t think they can or don’t really have much desire to do better.
The last comment by Proj fits my impression, i’d be interested to hear your take on this, Roissy.
I think these girls consider acceptable few opportunities of meeting a LTR (i.e only social circle), so past school they may not meet a lot of men through the social circle and they settle down to the best they can find at the moment, which means they share the same friends etc, and it would make the break up difficult, the best very short term decision is each day to spend another day with the other person.
But these guys are not in a safe situation at all, she will cheat while in vacation with the girls (or alone), and will probably leave the man for another, maybe not so alpha, at one time or another when her need for romance kicks back too strong.
And indeed for a fincancially independant young 8+ the situation will presents itself way sooner than 5 years into the relationship.
There are minor children.
“Jew/Orthodox Jew. My observation is generally Jewish men are very much henpecked and the women seem to prefer it that way….. for a relationship.”
And you guys wonder why there’s so much intermarriage?
Proj,
Yep, yep. Tho, given the opportunity, she will wander, she’s usually too conservative to seek out such opportunities.
She’s fulfilling her genetic prime directive (cuckoldry), with the alpha piece being provided by a safe alternative to an actual alpha (romance novels, SITC, the trusty vibrator).
Won’t many of them will not risk is losing that control to a relationship with an actual alpha, though her gina longs for it.
strike the “won’t” in last sentence
Lawyer/Feminist
Proj
If you define happiness as not struggling.
She simply knows what she can get away with and, being a modern entitlement princess, keeps pushing away. The tipping point will be divorce, initiated likely by her.
Physical appearances aren’t as relevant as the dynamic in this relationship. He has no leverage to keep her in place, which is why this is so tragic.
He is now, no doubt, wishing he learned about marriage 2.0 before getting involved with this bitch.
Since some of you mentioned she is Asian. I got it!!!
She’s Korean and he’s Gorb!
hee! hee!
Some women are near impossible to tame, and will fight fight fight fight and never give up. They don’t want to be happy. They will cause trouble because without drama they feel they are dead. Some women no technique can tame. Born to be shrew. Deep down inside these women are broken and can never be fixed.
These girls often come from broken homes. Many times, there is an alpha male father who left the child with her unsuitable mother. His asshole genes got passed on to the daughter, preventing her from ever becoming an acceptable wife.
He’s five years old with a great vocabulary and she’s his cunt mother.
The wine thing is cause they’re French and it’s watered.
I hope that poor bastard reads this and realizes his ridiculous situation. Roissy, you need to have cards made up with this blogs address on them, and you can surreptitiously slip them into betapockets for the good of mankind.
Can you imagine being a clueless beta and coming across a blog where your social interactions were mocked by hundreds of commenters? If that’s not a wake up call, I don’t know what is.
I bet the girl is the guy’s daughter. Just met after a divorce or some modern family bullshit.
If you define happiness as not struggling.
As most people in our society probably do.
What I mean is that they’re happy on a logical level, because they have what they think they want and what society tells them they should want — the stable, pleasant relationship — and they’re in a better (to them) situation than their single peers. Yes, at a deep down emotional level they both probably feel that something’s missing; the girl surely fantasises from time to time about being taken by an alpha and the guy likewise about banging the random girl he walked past on the street, but they never act on these fantasies unless maybe an opportunity presents itself like desiderius said, and they rationalise away the “something missing” feeling or seek it elsewhere in romance novels or sports or whatever.
If you define happiness as not struggling.
As most people in our society probably do.
Quiet desparation. I doubt anyone would mistake the exchange narrated as a happy one.
I’ve had times in my life where everyone around me seemed dead. Even the handsome couples were all zombie. Only my girl and me were alive. And not just because of the taxi cab blow jobs, public fingerings, or even the hard face slaps in the restaurant. We just had that warm couple glow.
Or maybe it was her dog collar and french maid mini dress.
Quiet desparation is for zombies, and the contrast will hit you hard when you see a couple with color in their faces.
I think the missing piece of information is that she formerly had a brief pump and dump with an alpha, and cannot stop thinking about him.
Simple. He married (or LTR’ed with) a man and became a wife. In any relationship, by order of degrees, there will always be a dominant and a submissive partner. For what ever reason (probably a belief in egalitarian gender equality) he chose the submissive partner role and abdicated to the authority of a dominant partner who didn’t have his best interests as her concern. She grows to resent him and now his life is over.
If you find yourself in a slave-like state, more likely than not a woman’s realized you’ve failed a great many of her past shit tests and will be reluctant to give up any semblance of power she thinks she has at this point. When a woman comes to recognize that her BF/husband can’t or wont provide her with the security she needs for herself and her children she will assume the role of the primary herself. Power abhors a vacuum and she will readily step into the role of the traditional security provider if a man is unwilling or incapable of doing so.
Off-topic: [Chateau Tweet] “”Hey boss, we found bin Laden.” What’s he gonna do, tell them not to bother?”
Check out yesterday’s entries at Auster’s and Sigma’s blogs; they have linked to apparent leaks of the Pres in fact “telling them not to bother,” with other officials at the highest levels going over his head to green-light the mission.
On topic: I know couples like that. It’s painful to watch. WHoever joked about them sounding like a domineering mother and her kid, wasn’t too far off.
So which is it, Roissy?
This reminds me of this flash movie: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/568430
It worries me that even when the animation is supposed to be an exaggeration that stuff actually happens.
It’s whats-his-name that owns facebook.
1. She is waiting to get a Green Card or US passport through this guy.
2. If she doesn’t need a Green Card or US passport and he’s not rich, then they are probably married and devoutly religious.
3. If he’s rich, then no wonder she doesn’t break up with him, especially if she gets to travel alone or not see him too often.
I wonder if there are some girls who choose guys like that for relationships. This would match my experience and what I’ve heard from girls. Most women cannot be happy while denying their feminine nature, but then so many are brainwashed nowadays that it wouldn’t surprise me if the logos didn’t win out over the eros in a lot of cases. The theme of your blog seems to fail to take these cases into account.
I’ve met more than enough happy couples consisting of an attractive girl and a beta male who met through social circle, in which the girl holds most of the power. In fact it describes most of the under-30 couples I’ve met.
you say these are couples you’ve ‘met’, not couples you ‘know’.
the happy exterior often belies the truth that lies beneath.
i know (knew) couples like these. most of them don’t last more than a few years.
I immediately thought “Asian chick”, and chucked pretty hard when several men here thought the same thing. Proj’s observation of under-30 couples is spot on as well.
chucked= chuckled. It’s early.
I wonder if there are some girls who choose guys like that for relationships. This would match my experience and what I’ve heard from girls. Most women cannot be happy while denying their feminine nature, but then so many are brainwashed nowadays that it wouldn’t surprise me if the logos didn’t win out over the eros in a lot of cases.
of course there are women who choose beta men for relationships. i see them everywhere i look.
it’s not just the women who are brainwashed though, it’s the men too.
The theme of your blog seems to fail to take these cases into account.
the theme of this blog isn’t how to be a beta man who accepts the woman’s dominance over him, it’s how to be the alpha who makes the woman’s eros win out over her logos.
She’s fucking your friend on the side?
she’s an old fat ugly feminist asian orthodox jew lawyer named kate married to her rich white legally blind 5 year old son named justin.
tell me what i’ve won.
Insanity?
No better options?
Man jaw?
Hmm…
Either way its bad treatment from her.
Holy hell.
Poor guy.
Imagine putting up with that shit and not even getting a hot lay out of it.
I’ll admit I have shitty game, but I have at least enough self-respect to walk away from something like that.
She is either fat, ugly, older or poorer then the guy.
Stories like that make me cry inside, because it’s like a 100th monkey effect – enough guys do this sort of thing and there is enough energy and a social pull for EVERY man to become a tool.
Just look at this shit!
Newly Married US Soap Star Lorenzo Lamas to Take Wife’s Last Name
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpps/entertainment/celebrity_news/newly-married-us-soap-star-lorenzo-lamas-to-take-wife%E2%80%99s-last-name-dpgonc-20110503-to_13039133
I remember watching Renegade long time ago and thinking to myself: Fuck, this guy is probably amazing with girls and can pull anyone he wants. And he probably can, but since he has been married 5 times, me thinks his looks get him though the door, his beta nature fucks him in the ass.
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttiiiiiieeeeee
We all know one of these couples. A friend of mine just got engaged to this girl who gets crazy and emotional when she’s drunk, none of our friends like her but we include her because HE’s our friend. She always gets teary and makes a scene and then start screaming at him or his friends. My boyfriend said that as a guy, there’s nothing worse than seeing another guy being whipped by his girlfriend. I said it obviously suits them both or they wouldn’t still be together. It may not be our cup of tea, but whatever works for them. My biggest fear is that a few years after they’re married, he might EXPLODE one day.
My guess:
– She’s a 5 but thinks she’s a 8
– Idealistic view of marriage, husband, kids, etc., but:
– Biological clock is ticking, about 30 years old
– Peer pressure (all friends have BFs) so even though she thinks she could trade up she wont because she “should” have kids asap.
– He’s an ok 33 years old ‘man’, no game whatsoever, 6 on a scale. (Could become 8 with game)
– She’s added 5-15 pounds
– She watches Desperate Housewives and 5 other similar series and has a completely distorted reality view.
– She needs him for the money because she only works part time as a cleaning lady or similar.
– He has nothing to say regarding anything and she believe he’s doing most things wrong.
= She has his balls by a string.
So…what’s the answer?
She’s pregnant. or they have a kid(s).
He was raised by women.
Women are only capable of raising beta losers. Putting up with this crap is exactly what women want to instill in their boys.
A couple is a system. Somehow if it’s lasted this long (actually, 5 years is not that long) they are both getting their needs met, perhaps in a sick way and I am not saying it’s healthy, but for whatever the reason, some sort of system is maintained…..a secondary gain maybe.
you know I guess in modern SWPL culture guys dont shame their friends to their face about being on lockdown. in more urban areas you will get belligerently mocked if your boys saw this happen to you.
this was a good post because I think I’m seeing this in public more and more
Newly Married US Soap Star Lorenzo Lamas to Take Wife’s Last Name
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpps/entertainment/celebrity_news/newly-married-us-soap-star-lorenzo-lamas-to-take-wife%E2%80%99s-last-name-dpgonc-20110503-to_13039133
taking her last name: bad move
their 28 year age difference: that’s the way to do it
she’s his mom?
shes fat.
hang on edit my above post
i change to she is fat AND asian.
because she is going to thailand… probably to see her family.. why else would you go there? for the prostitution?
poor bastard, before game i used to think life was shit.
Roissy, I can’t believe you were hanging out with Mark Zuckerburg!
They’re married.
NYC
The Master laughs at shit tests and drama.
I generally agree. But it seems that some women can’t be tamed. Can’t as in can’t.
A BPD woman will whip a man, in the end. There is no winning that contest. I don’t care if you are King of Krypton. The only way out of that hell is to escape – and even that won’t end the complications.
Also..
Being whipped is more than a matter of spirit – it’s situational. The defense against it is non-monogamy, and safe income that is beyond the reach of the girl. But most men aren’t in a mental space to even want non-monogamy, let alone handle it, let alone bring such a situation about in their lives. And once sucked in to whipped whirlpool, dating around gets further out of reach.
My guess is this guy suffers from a very common Beta malady; he’s what I call “pre-whipped”. One unfortunate result of the constant feminization conditioning over the course of an Beta’s life is that they tend to retain idealizations of what their “dream girl” should be and how she will be treated by him before they even encounter a girl that marginally fits the idealized description. Think of it in terms of preemptively “pedestaling” a girl that an AFC has yet to meet.
This is one of the more insidious AFC mental schemas. It predisposes a guy to think that a woman will expect to be, and rightfully should be, in control of the frame from the outset of any LTR. Of course it’s ultimately self-defeating, but the idea behind “pre-whipping” convention is to make the AFC expect to be whipped by any prospective GF he engages with before they meet.
Now, granted this may not exactly be where the guy is now, but guys like this most certainly hold idealizations about “his kinda girl” and is displaying signs of being pre-whipped. He’s already prepared to abdicate authority to this type of woman. I can think of at least 4 AFCs I’ve known who’s wives domineer them and scold them worse than their children publicly and privately. However, since a woman’s husband is a reflection on her character by association, these women are always ready to defend their husbands (often with open hostility) at the sign of the slightest outside insult to his masculinity.
You see, AFCism has two phases – the single AFC, and then the AFC in an LTR. Both share common characteristics and mental states, but each is facilitated differently. The single AFC prepares himself to be the LTR AFC.
Clearly this situation has been a long time coming, so no simple reply will immediately alter the dynamic.
Not sure what could be causing both her sense of command and her need to display it publicly. My guesses are (i) young kids he must support, (ii) she has a piece on the side she likes better, and/or (iii) his status fell recently due to unemployment, etc. She thinks he is lucky for whatever gifts she provides him, and being a woman, she despises him for that.
I would take a guess that any guy has that moment or two where a woman tries this stuff when you are out among mutual friends. I have seen guy friends get it, and I have seen women friends give it.
I remember twice where my gal started getting in my shit in front of other people. Not this bad, but just shit talk. I simply said, “shut up.” Literally. The second time she even escalated by blustering that she had not said what she had just said. I followed with “Yeah, you did. Shut up.” No raised voices, no threats, no later discussion of her feelings about it. Just, “shut up.”
The other people were shocked by my response, and got real quiet. I am a friendly, pleasant, sociable guy albeit one with a penchant for extreme sport hobbies and such.
“Shut up.” Use if you need it, but not often. And then let it hang there. Never apologize, never take it back, never explain. It serves as a reminder that you can walk away in an instant, and you are okay with that.
shatoo
Question directed to the studio audience. What particular fact which I left out of this post explains why this relationship has lasted five years?
They’re clearly Canadians.
Send prize to my personal assistant or valet.
She was fat. And obnoxious. Oh, you left that in.
Just leaving one Asian country for another. I’ll report on the change in physiognomies and attitudes.
Korea: hard-assed women who love to play. Svelte, few fatties, lots of plastic surgery. Strong sense of own value, but overwhelming presence of non-ugly women everywhere makes many insecure about SMV.
SMV is determined by many factors: marriage market is fucking brutal. A slutty tramp had better find a highly stupid beta or hide it well. Lots of highly stupid betas around, though.
Men are profoundly less attractive (in female terms) than women.
Next country, will report.
He is the lover she has been cheating with for the last 5 years. Her husband is the guy she is meeting in Thailand.
He gets shitty sex occasionally with no commitment as long as he is willing to put up with her need bitchy behavior.
Her husband meanwhile, is banging multiple 18 yo Thai pussy before and after their liaisson in Thailand. He just has to meet her there to keep up appearances.
She’s fat.
Or I go with hebes.
This guy is not whipped: http://tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/web-redemption—foul-ball-couple
Waiting for Roissy to tell us
They’re fucking married.
Roissy, have you ever publicly intervened into a couples business and gave them the what-for. ?
so our boy Herb here says enough, what’s the right response? I don’t think any verbal response is sufficient — pack your shit, walk away; if she comes back everything is on your terms.
Agreed, if you’ve reached the point where you’re getting full-blown contempt and derision, no response is going to save you. But just for fun, some attempts at dealing with this shit on the spot:
Him: I’m gonna have a glass of wine.
Her: No, you aren’t. You’ve had enough.
Him: Aww, my little niece said the same thing at Christmas. [orders a glass of wine]
***
Him: Can you look up the weather for tomorrow?
Her: No, I’m doing something right now, can’t you see?
Him: All right, I’ll go ask someone who’s *not* too busy playing Angry Birds. [goes and asks the cute bartender what the weather will be like tomorrow.]
***
Him: We’re going to Thailand next month.
Her: No, *I’m* going to Thailand. He’s just meeting me there later.
Him: [I assume they’re talking to other people about the trip] She’s still not thrilled about my detour through the red-light district in Laos. [shit-eating grin]
***
Him: I’ve gotta check the travel itinerary.
Her: In a minute. Just relax, I’ll get to it.
Him: Hey, by the way, I banged your sister last night.
(Okay, that last one might need some work…)
“Hint: A hot chick wouldve dumped a beta…” She is fat. But is she Asian? Rahm Emmanuel,after winning the mayoral race in Chi-town,went on vacation with the family to Thailand. I thought that was a weird choice for a family vacation,(“Hey kids,want to see a ladyman?” “Yeah!!”)but I guess not. BUT..she is going there first,he comes later. So is it A)Bidness or B)Family ? They osund white to me. So I am going with fat and white. Jewish? I dont think so. Most jew women want to keep their jew hubby to have jew kids,and do seders and whatnot. So I am going with fat white bitch,beta white male. (Less the woman is Buh-Lack! Thats a different kettle of fish!)
some sort of guilt complex, religious?
Akebono, agreed – it’s useless at that point, but as a diversion:
Him: I’m gonna have a glass of wine.
Her: No, you aren’t. You’ve had enough.
Him: You make life bad. [orders a glass of wine]
***
Him: Can you look up the weather for tomorrow?
Her: No, I’m doing something right now, can’t you see?
Him: Ya, I’m a bit busy too. Bye.
***
Him: We’re going to Thailand next month.
Her: No, *I’m* going to Thailand. He’s just meeting me there later.
Him: [I assume they’re talking to other people about the trip]
Well, I was going to meet you. Now I’m thinking I could do better.
***
Him: I’ve gotta check the travel itinerary.
Her: In a minute. Just relax, I’ll get to it.
Him: Good job.
@akebono
there is no “response” to the things that bitch says. the only thing to do, if you ever get to that bizarre stage in a relationship… is to just stop, stare hard, and impose your masculine will. Grab her arm, hard, and tell her to never speak to you that way again. I mean hard. Hard enough to make people at the table very uncomfortable. Don’t give an ultimatum… meaning don’t say something like “don’t speak to me that way again OR whatever”; just say “don’t ever fucking speak to me that way”. Show her your strength, grab her, pull her, manipulate her body with your strength. Thats the only way to get the message across to a girl that solidified into bitchmode.
Just out of curiosity, what would you guys consider the ‘proper’ responses for the woman to give in those situations?
*expects to see something out of stepford wives*
or, to the “you’ve had enough wine” shit, you say something like “YOU don’t ever tell me what to do, do you understand?”, while grabbing, while raising your voice slightly, not louder, but deeper. When it gets that bad, you HAVE to rustle up your ballsack and get primal. There are no responses to insults that bad. I mean, while in front of other people, shes telling the man he can’t drink anymore. Doesn’t anyone else get RAGE when you read that? If a girl said that to me, there would be no snappy comebacks or shit eating grin witticisms, there would be fucking rage, and she would never do it again.
Read the damn situation. He is asking to use her gadget. Therefore, he doesn’t have his own. She controls the finances in the relationship. So – he may have serious problems handling money and so she handles his money for him or she makes a lot more money than him.
The Thailand exchange makes it clear – he has NO job.
@Sleet
Are you a girl? How would you respond?
Him: I’m gonna have a glass of wine.
Her: (if she honestly thinks hes had too much to drink) Do you want me to drive?
————-
Him: Can you look up the weather for tomorrow?
Her: sure (if shes doing something, she finishes doing it and looks up the weather or stops what shes doing and looks it up without the bullshit unnecessary backtalk)
——————–
Him: We’re going to Thailand next month.
Her: …
——————
Him: I’ve gotta check the travel itinerary.
Her: …
————
Nobody expects stepford wife “yes sir” and “no sir”, we just expect not to be belittled and shit tested. Most guys with even a small understanding of game would never let their relationship get to that point anyway.
Sleet:
So, everything is Stepford Wives, eh? Jeez what are you reading all the time where that’s your first frame of reference? Where’s your mind?
Him: I’m gonna have a glass of wine.
Her: Will you be OK or should I drive?
***
Him: Can you look up the weather for tomorrow?
Her: Hold on, I’ll get to it in a minute.
***
Him: We’re going to Thailand next month.
Her: I’m looking forward to it! We’ll have such an awesome time!
***
Him: I’ve gotta check the travel itinerary.
Her: Hold your horses, Geronimo! I’ll get to it.
***
Entirely reasonable responses that don’t drip with contempt. But any reasonable woman is a Stepford Wife, right? Isn’t that the definition?
I agree, Science, rage can be an appropriate response.
I doubt there is a one size fits all rule. Some guys are not temperamental, and manage to manipulate their girls fine. It’s an error to think that that a quick temperment is a fault though. It can be an advantage.
If the girl doesn’t know what your tipping point is, so much the better. If you are even tempered, and then prone to suddenly snap and escalate WAY above what she was bringing you, she’ll be the one walking on eggshells, not you.
@ Proj
Good observations by Proj. The only thing I would quibble with is the notion that the betas in these relationships are getting sex—I would highly doubt their gfs are giving it up on a regular basis. These relationships work in part because either, 1) both of them have low(er) sex drives, or 2) the woman has all the power and a low sex drive so the beta contents himself with the hand most the month.
The lack of sex drive on the part of the women also makes it unlikely that they are cheating.
I need to know what happened here
So I approached this chic at school (university i go to)
she’s like a 7.5/8, and the pu went smoothly. I believe I maintained alphaness. We ended up like a week later going to ihop at like 11pm for just like, light food, i spent like 5 bucks total and she was major eager to hang out.
SHe always responds immediately when I send a text, even if if it’s like a few days time in between. I was losing interest in her but decided, what the heck, let’s see where it can go
so I decide to open up with a hopefully playful random comment
I’m randomizing her name by calling her Emily
Me- Congrats!
Her – Haha with?
Me – We killed bin laden
her –
i know!
me- youre right, i dont know why im congratulating you.. you didnt do it!
her- ha i know
(So I was also looking at her facebook and I saw she was a cheer leader, from that time we went out i couldnt tell)
me -you were a cheer leader in hs?
her- Ya i was cheer captain
haha
Me- i didnt take you for a cheer girl. you dont have the look
( i dont know if this is beta at all?)
her- Hmm okay
her -What are you even trying to say?
me – you seemed to give off a different vibe – not nerdy, but like, more mother earthy? The cheer girls i met in cali were more like, shop-a-holics that hated going outside
me- if im wrong about my perception, please let me know
( my thing with this was, when we hung out, she did seem more like the kind to hike, go camping, etc, so i guess i was trying to give her a compliment? now that i think about it maybe i shouldnt have =p)
her – … yes i love to hike i love to shop yes i love to be outside and yes i love to get my hair done. thanks for stereoptyping me and judging me right off the bat instead of getting to know me first
me – stereotype is just a harsh word for this situation, Emily
her- your just kinda judgmental and i dont have much toleranc for that
me – im sorry. i caught you at a bad time of the month apparently. i didnt sign a declaration of ” emily is this” – it was a simple topic of conversation to verify a perception of which you apparently got offended
her – wow youve got to be kidding me
me – i dont have anything against cheer or “going shopping”, if anything i was complimenting you for being more balancd than the “stereotypical” cheer leader – and not one that falls into it
her – okay well thankyou for your strange compliment. im going to bed. night
( i just felt i beta’ed it up by explaining to her something i feel like i botched and i knew it was ending on a bad note so I wanted to say something playfully alpha at the end)
me – Hope you arent as attitude prone tomorrow
her – okay do you see what you just texted me? youre just being rude Dan
her – i barely know you and youre making assumptions about me for heavens sake talking about my period. i mean who does that? im sorry for being snappy but thats not acceptable
(i didnt want to let her tell me what was acceptable and what wasnt, and she still is thinking I “judged her”)
me- ya well i dont let chics get all pissed off at me for somethign stupid. assumptions? it is a well known stereotype that cheer girls are “dumb”, the fact that i said you dont fit it is an… err.. intersting compliment sinc i didnt take you for that, then you blow up at me – which is not acceptable. i dont put up with crap. im sorry if it came across as offensive. i didnt take you for a B either which is why im giving you the benefit of the doubt of it being your period. the last comment i made had a wink at the end which obviously means it was joking. calm down. good night.
her- i worked full time last week and had finals im stressed and tired. sorry if i blew up. the way you made your compliment sounded totally diff from what im sure you meant, so im sorry on my part
me – ill forgive you in about 5 minutes. did your finals go well?
her – k already forgive you. and yes they did thanks. you?
me- hahah ya. glad its resolved. nite em
( then i texted her the next day sometime later, wanting to see if she wanted to go out i guess)
me would you have a hissy fit if i made the “assumption” that you might be a fun person?
her – heeey! haha no i wouldnt
me – see! youre not too bad even after a full time of work and finals!
me- does em work every day?
She hasnt texted me back. I originally thought that it was all betterish since i in my opinion, responded alphaishly back? or at least parts of it… but she isnt responding now. She was originally way interested in me but now it’s bleh.
what could i have done better or can i do now?
shimaum – I didn’t have the stomach to read your whole exchange. I gave up after “I’m sorry”.
What did you do wrong? What should you do differently?
You need to scrap and tear down your whole approach and rebuild starting with a new foundation.
Start by reading every page and on this blog. You need a new you. That may seem daunting, but thankfully neuroplasticity makes it possible.
[…] was basic game. It was below basic. The men I read on the net – Dagonet, Willy Wonka, Roosh, Roissy – that was their light breakfast, if they felt like it. But, for me, it was the start. It was […]
Me- Congrats!
Her – Haha with?
Me – We killed bin laden
her –
i know!
me- youre right, i dont know why im congratulating you.. you didnt do it! [exclamation marks are gay. Comment does little to push things forward.]
her- ha i know
(So I was also looking at her facebook and I saw she was a cheer leader, from that time we went out i couldnt tell)
me -you were a cheer leader in hs? [Admitting to FB creepin’ will get you nowhere.]
her- Ya i was cheer captain
haha
Me- i didnt take you for a cheer girl. you dont have the look
( i dont know if this is beta at all?)
her- Hmm okay [She’s intrigued but wary, very.]
her -What are you even trying to say?
me – you seemed to give off a different vibe – not nerdy, but like, more mother earthy? The cheer girls i met in cali were more like, shop-a-holics that hated going outside [Waaay talky. You’re trying to justify yourself and be complimentary. This is not where tingles come from.]
me- if im wrong about my perception, please let me know
[more tingle-killing affirmation-seeking. Also, an emoticon.]
( my thing with this was, when we hung out, she did seem more like the kind to hike, go camping, etc, so i guess i was trying to give her a compliment? now that i think about it maybe i shouldnt have =p)
her – … yes i love to hike i love to shop yes i love to be outside and yes i love to get my hair done. thanks for stereoptyping me and judging me right off the bat instead of getting to know me first [Shit test.]
me – stereotype is just a harsh word for this situation, Emily [Failed. You entered her frame.]
her- your just kinda judgmental and i dont have much toleranc for that
me – im sorry. i caught you at a bad time of the month apparently. i didnt sign a declaration of ” emily is this” – it was a simple topic of conversation to verify a perception of which you apparently got offended [Learn to shut your mouth. Too talky, and coming from a place of deep betatude.]
her – wow youve got to be kidding me
me – i dont have anything against cheer or “going shopping”, if anything i was complimenting you for being more balancd than the “stereotypical” cheer leader – and not one that falls into it
her – okay well thankyou for your strange compliment. im going to bed. night
( i just felt i beta’ed it up by explaining to her something i feel like i botched and i knew it was ending on a bad note so I wanted to say something playfully alpha at the end)
me – Hope you arent as attitude prone tomorrow
her – okay do you see what you just texted me? youre just being rude Dan
her – i barely know you and youre making assumptions about me for heavens sake talking about my period. i mean who does that? im sorry for being snappy but thats not acceptable
[Skipping ahead, all of that was a combination of not understanding cocky-funny and having no sense of aloof at all.]
(i didnt want to let her tell me what was acceptable and what wasnt, and she still is thinking I “judged her”)
me- ya well i dont let chics get all pissed off at me for somethign stupid. assumptions? it is a well known stereotype that cheer girls are “dumb”, the fact that i said you dont fit it is an… err.. intersting compliment sinc i didnt take you for that, then you blow up at me – which is not acceptable. i dont put up with crap. im sorry if it came across as offensive. i didnt take you for a B either which is why im giving you the benefit of the doubt of it being your period. the last comment i made had a wink at the end which obviously means it was joking. calm down. good night.
[My god.]
her- i worked full time last week and had finals im stressed and tired. sorry if i blew up. the way you made your compliment sounded totally diff from what im sure you meant, so im sorry on my part
me – ill forgive you in about 5 minutes. did your finals go well?
her – k already forgive you. and yes they did thanks. you?
[Seems friendly, isn’t. This is not a text a girl writes who tingles for you.]
me- hahah ya. glad its resolved. nite em
( then i texted her the next day sometime later, wanting to see if she wanted to go out i guess)
me would you have a hissy fit if i made the “assumption” that you might be a fun person?
her – heeey! haha no i wouldnt
me – see! youre not too bad even after a full time of work and finals!
me- does em work every day?
[Mostly just try hard.]
the horror…the horror…
it being only the 5th of may, i nonetheless feel confident that that will be the ‘beta text of the month’ winner.
I give Harry credit for asking for help (which he desperately needs). That’s the first step.
for [email protected]
Dear god man. what.the.fuck.r.u.doing?
Why are you sending ENORMOUSLY LONG text messages explaining yourself?! Why are u even arguing about stupid shit with her?
Your first mistake was taking her responses as an attack against you. From the moment this happened i knew u were fucked
[i]Me- i didnt take you for a cheer girl. you dont have the look
( i dont know if this is beta at all?)
her- Hmm okay
her -What are you even trying to say?
me – you seemed to give off a different vibe – not nerdy, but like, more mother earthy? The cheer girls i met in cali were more like, shop-a-holics that hated going outside
[b]hating on girls to a girl. r u a fucking girl?[/b]
me- if im wrong about my perception, please let me know
[b]so you’re putting it on her to defend herself to u?! what kind of shit is this?[/b]
( my thing with this was, when we hung out, she did seem more like the kind to hike, go camping, etc, so i guess i was trying to give her a compliment? now that i think about it maybe i shouldnt have =p)
her – … yes i love to hike i love to shop yes i love to be outside and yes i love to get my hair done. thanks for stereoptyping me and judging me right off the bat instead of getting to know me first
me – stereotype is just a harsh word for this situation, Emily
[b]y r u taking her comments so seriously? seriously?[/b][/i]
Brah, u need to learn how to find girls amusing. You obviously care WAYYYY too much about this girl, and i bet it’s the same for all girls. your email sounds indian, so that might explain some.
Rules: NEVER backpedal. Always move forward. Don’t fucking explain yourself if you meant something as a compliment.
Anyone reading your post can see u have low self-esteem and low confidence. Fix yourself brah
@ Lara
[email protected] asked the questions, Harry gave the answers
Oh, okay. I thought that was CR.
@[email protected]
As soon as you feel yourself trying to scramble to defend or justify yourself, it means she’s shit-testing you and you’re reflexively responding as a beta.
As xsplat said, the best recommendation we can give is to read the entire archive of this website and let it sink in over a few weeks. In time and with much practice, my son, you will become a natural at treating a hot chick like you’d treat a bratty younger sister, instead of being tentative and on the defensive around her.
Nope, I just used his typical formatting. But yeah, I wish I had put a big “@SHIMAUM” disclaimer at the top.
@Science, Harland
Nope, not a girl. And this blog is what I’ve been reading, of late. I’ve come to notice that many of the commenters here seem to prefer their women bovinely submissive–hence the stepford reference.
[Editor: Your notice is written on straw.]
Curious how stung Harland here appeared by the whole stepford thing, guess I hit a sore spot, huh.
[Your objections were answered in fine fashion by a couple of commenters above.]
Reasonable is fine, I guess. Of course, there’s a world of difference between a vile ball-buster like the one in the original post and a placid little sex slave schooled to silence. I like my women a bit more titillating than “…” when it comes to a conversation. But hey, to each his own.
[Point to one specific sentence on this blog where it was advocated that women should only say “…”]
You’ll also learn how to text effectively, as it’s been covered here in depth many times.
Tinderbox is right about the defensiveness. If you are going to say something obnoxious be prepared for her to get annoyed at you, don’t act all hurt.
@ Lara, Tinder, Erik, Harry xsplat
Thanks guys for reading the very large conversation and responding in detail, especially Erik and Harry.
First: he’s jewish and she’s gentile. I’ve actually wanted to point this out for some time. My experience is limited but I’ve found that Jewish girls LOVE gentile men. At first I thought that maybe this was born of the same psychological phenomanon which makes some white chicks want to fuck a black guy. But then, it seems like Jewish men are pretty beta, and are shorter than the average gentile to boot. Maybe all these things come together for gentile men to make Jewish girls crazy… hellafino. Then, I could be wrong; then again, a good friend of mine, whom I rarely have contact with, due to distance, noticed the same thing. More in-field-testing is under way. Haha, my game niche will be gentile man to Jewish girl. Note: social circle game is paramount if you want to bang Jewish girls; Jewish people really do have a “community,” in the sense that you won’t see them in most places you frequent in your leisure time, they tend to cloister themselves, they’re wealthier, they don’t go out and drink copious amounts of alcohol, etc. etc. I happened upon this by accident, but the fact that Jewish girls are thinner, prettier, and take better care of themselves makes the venture worth while. Really, it’s like dating a foreign chick.
Second: go to any rural county fair and on display will be ridiculous numbers of tall skinny farm boys with fat heifer chicks… just saying, it’s pathetic.
Is there a more loathsome creature on this planet than an obese middle aged cunt who is married to a sackless beta? Perpetual pms is right.
[Editor: They weren’t middled-aged. They were in their 20s.]
Shimaum,
Actually I should say if you say something obnoxious be prepared for a woman to get angry at you. Don’t live in fear of a woman’s anger and occasionally getting them angry is better than walking on eggshells around them. She will get annoyed if you you get hurt and defensive, though. Just take it like a man and don’t be too sensitive about it. Most of the time no apology is necessary, just move on to something else.
Plus, when a girlfriend has been dominating you for years, it’s going to take a lot more careful strategic thinking to break her in. You don’t tame a wild horse by yelling at it after it’s thrown you off, and the same goes for taming women.
Agree totally. That said, in my own experience there were a couple of blowups that were triggered when she realized I just wasn’t going to be taking her seriously. I mostly managed to maintain state and ride out the blowup, and things have progressively improved.
I’ve read about a couple of guys (Mormon Man was one) who got divorced after taking the blue pill and realizing that their wives were incorrigably dominant, but those seem to be the exceptions.
Well, Sleet if you’re really not a woman then you’re a fucking faggot. because only a woman or some loser sandal-n-sock wearing faggot with thick rimmed glasses would go straight to stepford wives reference.
“Oh so I guess women should just sit home and never talk and let their husbands beat them is that what you’re saying? Uhh hello..Marie Curie, anyoneee?”
the blog writers have other times said that it’s beneficial to put your fist through the wall beside a woman’s head.
They have also mentioned that publicly embarrassing the girl is at times to your benefit.
Woman on facebook:
“Does anyone remember this guy? [pic of alpha] We used to be good friends and he was really nice.”
I was like “yeah, of all the high school mates you had, you had to recall the alphas.”
…..
Later on the alpha apears in the group and says:
“I don’t know how she got this pic and I don’t even know who she is!”
Ouch.
If the girl will modify her behavior based on subtle cues, you don’t need to show anger.
Some girls need a short sharp shock. Some need unsubtle correction.
Amused mastery is not an adjustable wrench you can use on all bolts. It’s a limited use tool.
Without anger in your tool-kit, you WILL get tooled.
Ask Sean Connery if amused mastery is the way to keep a woman who is being a harpie in line.
Someone link to the video where he advocates a single sharp slap to the face.
Don’t rely on amused mastery when the girl is not responsive to subtle correction. Don’t be subtle when subtlety has no effect.
Women don’t want to be the dominant ones in relationships, but against their deepest desires they will assume the role if the man refuses to step up.
I guess power it’s like nature: it abhors a vacuum. Someone has to be ine charge.
And you are right about the stress a woman feels for having to be the domiant. It’s like they are always pushing the enveloped further and furhter as means to push the man to the point of no return.
It’s like they are inwardly begging “Stop me. Do something. Be a man!”
Also, the blowback from indignant rage is the girl cleaving to you as her master.
You don’t have to always be cute.
“It’s like they are inwardly begging “Stop me. Do something. Be a man!””
For some girls, being a man is not demonstrated by cute come backs and amused mastery. Some girls demand that you escalate way past that.
Question: Roosh has advocated in his blog that sometimes showing anger works (you too) when being shittested.
An alpha friend of mine let me know that controlling your emotions and not letting a women get under your skin under any circumstance is the best way to pass a shit test because you show her that she cannot influence your emotions (eg. amused mastery, Agree and amplify, simply ignoring her) vs using the easy solution i.e. anger.
in the end of the day the pimp was called Iceberg slim because he was cold as ice.
your thoughts?
[Editor: Occasional flashes of anger are fine. Maybe even required. But if you’re a beta who’s been taking shit from your GF for years without protesting, you can’t just explode in anger out of the blue and expect her to back down in submissive gratitude. For a lifelong beta the best bet is to work his way up to the point where she takes his anger seriously.]
Quetal – it’s been pointed out that different pimps have different styles. Some are harsh, some kind. In this case there is no one answer.
Some parents never spank. But it’s a mistake to say that spanking is a mistake.
You have to find your style.
Anger is an extremely useful tool. Don’t throw it out. You may find that you need it. You may find that a little tap on the nut with a hammer before applying the wrench will loosen it up. You may find some jobs can only be handled with a hammer.
The writers of this blog are a bit schizo about this subject. Usually they advocate being Spock – until they don’t.
Read the posts about hitting your woman. Displays of anger and dominance can be extreme and have politically incorrect positive results. You’ll get devotion like you never imagined from extreme anger.
Some girls will hold out that last reserve of love until you really open up on them with anger.
They’ll tell you the exact moment they fell in love with you. Moments that are quite ugly.
The question is not about her, it’s ‘What does he see in her which makes him want to stay in the relationship?’. She must have some redeeming qualities, otherwise your negative connotations wouldn’t hold water if that was all he saw.
Ha! Knew there was no way she was Asian. Too many chortling, dismissive replies above saying so. Check it out, the people who said she’s Asian weren’t guessing, it was “well durr this is totally obvious.” BZZT wrong!
Re: “They’ll tell you the exact moment they fell in love with you. Moments that are quite ugly.”
Yup. Just ask my Filipina gf.
We had been seeing each other a bit, and I took her with me on vacation to one of the gorgeous, remote tropical islands that are dime-a-dozen in Philippines. On our first night, we had drinks and dinner at one restaurant, agreeing to check out another place that looked interesting on the next evening.
The next night, as we walk past Restaurant #1 on our way to Restaurant #2, the proprietor of #1 recognizes us and asks us to come in for a drink on the house. I agree of course, telling my girl we’re just a having one pop at #1 and then moving on to #2. But after just a minute, my girl asks for a menu and sulkily tells me she’s ordering food here at #1 because she doesn’t feel like waiting.
I whip around, glaring and annoyed. “What are you doing? We agreed that we’re eating at #2 tonight, right? We’re not eating here.” She gapes at me. I take the menu from her and hand it back to the waiter, then resume talking with the owner of #1 until the drinks are done.
Fast-forward a few months. We’re in bed, and the topic of the #1/#2 conflict comes up. She tells me, “I was shocked. Most men would have let me get away with that. I knew that night that you were the man I wanted to be with.”
@drive thanks for the story
Hilarious blog post by women who’ve ridden the cock carousel for over a decade bemoaning the fact that no men want to date them. Karma is a bitch indeed….
http://www.datemedc.com/2011/04/precipice-of-spinsterhood.html
Jesus that text posted above is a prime example of what most guys do wrong! It was just awful all around! Duuuuuuude, fix yourself and take the red pill. You need to see the matrix for what it is and use all the advantages u can.
You guys are all idiots if you think you can tame a woman. Put her in the kitchen with that attitude and she’ll fucking poison you.
I’ve found the best fallback response to any shit test is “u mad?” said with my best trollface. Easy to remember and instantly regain hand. It’s like amused mastery in a can.
OT:
Go to NYT “room for discussion” page for some lulz.
[Editor: Occasional flashes of anger are fine. Maybe even required. But if you’re a beta who’s been taking shit from your GF for years without protesting, you can’t just explode in anger out of the blue and expect her to back down in submissive gratitude. For a lifelong beta the best bet is to work his way up to the point where she takes his anger seriously.]
That makes sense, I hadn’t considered that when I posted my comments.
I was going with my first instinct, if I were in that situation, but the more I think, the more I realize that a guy that far into betadom can’t just expect to be taken seriously when reprimanding his gf. A burst of anger from a guy like that would probably come off sounding like a hissy fit.
An angry beta often just looks foolish. Alpha men are actually much easier to get along with than beta ones.
CR is right, a man is going to have to build up some respect with his wife or girlfriend before she takes his anger seriously.
@james
Well james they are easy to tame when you use charm. Anger is rarely required except for when they do something really stupid. Also it tends to work best when it is an acute anger at the moment rather than beta lingering resentment. When what made me angry goes away, so does the anger.
Lara
Tinderbox is right about the defensiveness.*
so good to see you finally handing out approvals; we’ve been on tenderhooks simply waiting for that.
*oh – there’s a first time for everything. rememba?
Been wondering where Morsellaux is….I sense he is incognito. I have my ideas about who he is now. ha!
Firepower,
Funny. I do do that a lot.
This is one of the most useful (if lesser organized) posts by Roissy. I agree 100% with the principle that status is never equal, and a woman will begrudgingly seize the leadership role in a relationship if a man does not (or cedes it). Resentment is inevitable.
One girl I worked with – did not date but could have if the timing were better and we didn’t work together – often told me about the guys she’d date and how rudderless they were. Always waiting for her to make the decisions and what not, thus diminishing her interest. One day I just told her, “Suzy, you need a Man who will grab you and tell you what you’re both gonna do. And then do it.” She was astounded that I knew exactly what she wanted, but it was a no-brainer because that’s what all women want. They simply hate having to articulate it.
She not only was astounded but had the glimmer in her eye of “why can’t we just fukk” but alas, it could not be as I was and am spoken for. Nevertheless, a mutually acknowledged desire to fukk is a great thing between two people. It was all based on the subtext – I was saying, if I were dating you, I’d grab you and do what we both know you want me to do.
Not one commenter on the DatemeDC post criticized her for saying that, at 28, she wouldn’t date anyone older than 38. Not one.
To the author of this post:
Considering you had no personal connection with the couple (aside from your mutual friend), I wish that you would have helped this shmuck get his bearings back.
“Is this bitch your personal trainer?” when she said he’s had enough to drink.
“Hey man, your ticket might be refundable” when she said he is meeting her in Thailand.
That sort of thing.
@lara
just be sure to take pictures while your doing it; Tenderbox needs arousals.
“Sean Connery has been married for 31 years and we have not heard a single complaint…”
She’s gotta be Canadian, she sounds just like a Canadian bitch.
It follows this general rule no?
Single geeky dudes. You always see them alone. Sometimes they experiment with bad looking side burns. Red heads are classic. They seem uncomfortably gasping for oxygen with gamer-porn gills in the real world.
Fat girls in pairs. I remember seeing them together at coffee shops each buying a giant cookie. If their are corridors like in a book store you need to shunt to another aisle cause they linger and waddle as they chat about…I don’t know really…conversational burial sheets of Hollywood gossip to cover the rattle noise of social death?
Now I often see mixed crowds laughing and having a good time. They are often in the attractive range.
Ugly couples usually stay in more. If you know a couple like this 1/2″ ply wood makes a great gift for nailing up the windows.
I work with a guy whose wife divorced him. They were high school
sweet heartsdried liver. Thing is he would treat here with savage anger all the time. Looking at a fatty gets on your nerves. I consider it a defacto rejection from him even though she did the paper work.This was my fate had I not decided to work on myself and learn game.
heh. i read this in dear abby today (don’t hate!) and thought it might interest you guys…
dear abby: my husband, “james,” constantly tells me he loves me, but i don’t think i love him. i’m sure most women would love having a man tell them he loves them all the time, but it drives me up a wall. if i walk into a room, james says he loves me. if i leave the room, he says it again. the words have lost their meaning for me, but if i don’t respond in kind, james thinks i’m mad at him.
i am emotionally exhausted from having to constantly reassure him. if i try to discuss anything serious, he cries, and that just turns my stomach. i’m not an uncaring, unfeeling person. i’m very emotional, but when a man cries it makes me uncomfortable.
please don’t suggest counseling. james is a pastor who would want to go to a christian counselor. that makes me uneasy because he knows all the ones around here. we don’t have much money and no insurance. if ia sk for a divorce, it will end his career.
divorce is not an option for many people, but i don’t want to wake up one morning and realize i have lived my entire life putting myself second. abby, when is it ok to say this isn’t working?
-miserable in the midwest
abby responded by telling her to get counseling. and advising her to accept her husband’s weaknesses. lol.
@kitschek:
Good lord that’s disgusting. And the one sentence that is the proverbial nutshell?
“I’m sure most women would love having a man tell them he loves them all the time, but it drives me up a wall.”
What a fucking trainwreck male/female relations are in Western society:
A) Even though I’m sure it feels innately wrong and he hates himself for acting this way, this man believes that this is how a “modern, sensitive man” should behave.
B) Even though I’m sure it feels innately wrong and she hates him for acting this way, she has also beer-bonged the Kool-Aid and believes that this is how a “modern, sensitive man” should behave.
Great neg by Barack today:
“You do not want to be between Michelle and a tamale,” joked the president. “It’s true. It’s true. But she’s moving, though, so she can afford to have as many tamales as she wants,” said Obama in a nod to his wife’s “Let’s Move” healthy campaign.
Abby is what, 60? 45 at the very least. I guess it makes sense that someone that age would think this way.
She approaches the subject practically, addresses it in terms of what she stands to lose. It’s definitely advice from before women’s liberation.
[email protected]
I don’t know why the boys don’t get this.
Texting, chatting on the phone, facebook is all inherently female. Keep it to a bare minimum. Witty one word remarks is as good as it gets.
Its also difficult to steer the conversation when you screw it up. You don’t have body language to make it playful. Once you said
“i didnt take you for a cheer girl. you dont have the look”
Her response was defensive. So best would be something silly like the last cheer leader you dated used to shop lift comic books and that she seemed more like the free news letter type. AKA shit can it fast.
Your goal is to make arrangements and get of the girly grid. Keeps the mystery too.
Off-topic, but here’s a funny article for you Roissy:
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5263.htm
“Kuwaiti Columnist Fantasizes about Being Osama Bin Laden’s Wife”
Rather than commenting
Some would be more useful
Making sandwiches for the rest of us
Dudes ! To keep a woman and to keep her tamed, you need more than just catty remarks … you need to demonstrate that you are the lighthouse while she may be a boat bouncing on the waters of her swirling, stormy emotions. You need to be the rock on which her waves of emotions crash, but you stay un-moved and strong.
I understand that this is primarily a PU blog, but for those who progress to keeping a woman for the longer term and maintaining a relationship with said woman, then one needs to gnarl and bare one’s teeth from time to time. Can be once every few hours to once every few days, depends on the T-level of the woman and her time of month.
In the situation above where the frau imposes her will on the beta for not partaking more wine, he needs to definitely take the glass and drink it. But are you prepping the beta for the next step which usually happens – the woman would snatch the glass away from him, de-testicling him in front of his friends ? What would the typical guy do in such a situation ? I am curious …
@Tenderbox
One Firepower
Semen Sammich
coming up for you
[…] Renegade published a post on a whipped man. Resolve never to be that […]
so good to see you finally handing out approvals; we’ve been on tenderhooks simply waiting for that.
tenterhooks
jackass.
you’d better go make
a sammich you fake
you’ll ne’er be
a rake
He has kids with her
[…] Freedom Lifestyle Income Program How You Can Live the Freedom Lifestyle You Deserve… with a Passive Residual Income, Even if You Just Started Learning About Passive Income! Freedom Lifestyle Income Program Also you can take a look at this related read: http://roissy.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/whipped/ […]
Tim
tenterhooks
well
tenderhooks for
a Miss Tenderbox
It’s a play on words
you know
like you play with wiener
You’ll learn this stuff
I will teach you
like YOU play with weiner
you know
nya nya
I will teach YOU
to learn this stuff
biatch
firepoodle™
It’s good you’re a minor and manhood 101 legally had to refund your mom’s credit card for all that expensive bitch training.
nyahnyah? You must be 12
nyahnyah? You must be 12
oh YEAH? says YOU!
bitch-ass firepoodle™
lmfao
roflmao